Since when does quality filmmaking not include popcorn movies? (1 Viewer)

[rin]

Armegeddon was great! T3 was too. I liked Bad Boys so I'll probably enjoy BBII. Haven't seen LXG yet but I might even like that one too. The reason I watch films is to be entertained for a couple of hours. Therefore, I LET films entertain me. I have NO interest in becoming a film critic, amateur or otherwise but it seems I'm in the minority. If your idea of a good time is to pick a movie apart or if you think people are impressed by your "I hated that film" or "I loathed that one" nonsense, maybe you should look into a new hobby.

Lighten up.

 

[Joseph Young]

.

 

[Holadem]

rin-------------------------Holadem-------------------------Jack Briggs

--
Holadem

 

[Mike Broadman]

Why do some people assume that if one doesn't like some films, they are a "critic" or over-analytical, or that there's some kind of elitism or pretention.

Sometimes, a movie just sucks.

 

[SteveGon]

(And I don't think "The Engish Patient" is a good movie either...)

I like it.

 

[rin]

Sometimes, a movie just sucks.

Ya know, come to think of it, there have been some films that even I didn't much care for. I'm sure the list is just a little shorter than some.

Just in case anyone was wondering, a few movies I didn't like:
(in no particular order)

The Ninth Gate
Hannibal
The Apocalypse(low-budget sci-fi with Sandra Bernhardt)
The Phantom Menace(big budget sci-fi with poor acting & script)
West Side Story
Alien III
Lethal Weapon III
Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey

BTW If these popcorn flicks are so loathsome, then why are there umpteen million threads asking "which DVD would be the best to demo my new sub/surround speakers/etc.?"

 

[TheBat]

I rather watch the hulk movie then a michael bay film. I agree with you what you are saying. I don;t like the fast and stupid movies like bad boys 2, charles angeles 2.

JACOB

 

[SteveGon]

BTW If these popcorn flicks are so loathsome, then why are there umpteen million threads asking "which DVD would be the best to demo my new sub/surround speakers/etc.?"

That's another thing that bugs me.

"Man, Battlefield Earth II has awesome surround sound! And look at that! TWO discs worth of extras! Huh? Well, yeah, the movie sucks..."

 

[Steve Christou]

I always thought the term 'popcorn movie' was invented by stuffy snobby film critics, who hated the fact some films were not preaching a message or meaningful in any way, and were just out there for moviegoers to sit back and enjoy for a couple of hours.

Does it matter if Bad Boys II isn't a great movie? Was it a surprise that it wasn't? How many genuinely great movies get made every year anyway? People want escapism and this is what 'popcorn movies' deliver.

I've watched The Rock far more times than Schindler's List in the past ten years, doesn't mean I think it's a better movie, I just want to deafen my neighbors and in the end that's what it's all about, deafening the neighbors.



PLEASE IGNORE THAT LAST PARAGRAPH, THANK YOU.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Does it matter if Bad Boys II isn't a great movie?

Well, here's the issue as I see it- some people associate "great movie" with some sort of message, or to not be an action movie. The point that a few people have tried to make in this thread is that it is possible to make a great movie that is action or comedy without "redeeming social value."

Jaws is a great movie. It is escapism, simple, etc. But it's made really well, looks cool, has good performances, etc.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

The point that a few people have tried to make in this thread is that it is possible to make a great movie that is action or comedy without "redeeming social value."

Agreed. I am a huge fan of The Hunt For Red October. I love Raiders of the Lost Ark. I love the Star Wars trilogy. I love Ronin. I love The Sea Hawk. I love Singin' In The Rain.

A film does not have to be dramatically heavy or have a strong message to be "great". All of those films are pieces of populist entertainment, popcorn pictures, blockbusters or whatever you want to call them, and every one of them is well-made, well-written, well-shot, well-scored, well-edited, just perfect down to the last detail. And as for trotting out Citizen Kane, hey, it's a melodramatic semi-docudrama potboiler of the first degree, which is exactly what it was meant to be. Citizen Kane ain't no dramatic heavyweight, it's just real good.

To dismiss a film as populist entertainment because it is bad is a big ol' slap in the face to the hundreds of great films out there that are good popular entertainments.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

From Ebert's review of the Tomb Raider sequel:

This is a better movie than the first one, more assured, more entertaining. The director is Jan de Bont ("Speed"), who demands a certain logic from his screenwriters, so that although the story is completely preposterous, of course, it is consistent within its own terms. I was relieved to discover I am not tired of movies like this after all. They have to be good, is the thing.

There ya go.

 

[rin]

"Man, Battlefield Earth II has awesome surround sound! And look at that! TWO discs worth of extras! Huh? Well, yeah, the movie sucks..."

Hey, I liked Battlefield Earth!

 

[FredK]

How many genuinely great movies get made every year anyway?

Which is sad. With all the time, money, effort, and risk put into each movie I hoped we wouldn't have such a high failure rate. How hard is it to make a plausible & rewatchable film?

I don't want every movie to be great, but if a movie is a "popcorn movie" just meant to entertain me that doesn't pardon it from being engaging.

I don't agree with the "it's not a popcorn movie so that's why it's not doing well" argument either. Usually people don't like a movie because it's bad.

 

[RobertR]

I'm VERY glad SteveGon started this thread! He's saying something that really NEEDED to be said. Look, no one is saying that there's no place for fun, lighthearted action films. All we're saying is PLEASE do it WELL. If you really don't care about good writing, good acting, interesting characters doing things that make sense, etc., then you may as well dispense with writers, indeed dispense with directors, and make films nothing more than a technical exercise in sound and visual FX and have the on screen people (apparently, they don't even need to be actors) spout whatever wisecracks come into their heads. Plot? Why worry about that? Just have disconnected images of explosions, gunshots, undressed women, car chases, etc. Movies as video games, except you don't even have to participate. Just passively let it all pass before your eyes.

And I object to the false dichotomy being presented here. "If you don't like the latest Michael Bay extravaganza, you're obviously someone who only likes pretentious artsy fartsy stuff, and must analyze every film to the nth degree as if it were a subject of a critical essay, and those are the ONLY two POSSIBLE categories for film".

Wrong.

 

[Joseph Young]

And I object to the false dichotomy being presented here. "If you don't like the latest Michael Bay extravaganza, you're obviously someone who only likes pretentious artsy fartsy stuff, and must analyze every film to the nth degree as if it were a subject of a critical essay, and those are the ONLY two POSSIBLE categories for film".

Bravo!

I own "The Rock" and "Jackass," as well as "Discrete Charm of the Bourgoise" and "My Dinner with Andre." I am allowed to lump all of these films into the category of 'quality filmmaking,' although two of them are decidedly different from the others. Ultimately it comes down to a matter of taste and opinion. Stupid, boneheaded movies can still be entertaining if there's something about the pacing/scripting/characters that resonates with me.

I can articulate my reasons for not liking a film in a clear and direct way, and it doesn't make me a snob or someone who 'doesn't know how to enjoy film.' It just makes me someone who enjoys film criticism, be it praise or scorn.

That's what I like about the HTF. I'm allowed to express my opinion in an intelligent and articulate way, without being told to 'lighten up.'



Joseph

 

[Lew Crippen]

Well said Robert and Joseph.

 

[Stephen_L]

Bravo RobertR, I'm with you. I want the movie I spend $8.50 to see to be well-made whether its a cartoon, horror picture, Merchant Ivory period piece, documentary, action thriller, or romance. If you settle for less, that only encourages Hollywood to crank out more dreck. Some of the most beloved classics were not prestige 'message' pictures. (Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Robin Hood, Psycho, North by Northwest) But they were crafted with care.

This thread poses the interesting question, 'what constitutes a well-made film?' In my book it is the following:

Characters with some level of believability

Avoidance of pat formulas or at least formulas with a fresh edge.

Decent dialogue. Avoiding cliche.

A solid ending. Many a decent picture has been sunk with a cliched ending, and many an average picture has been redeemed by a good ending. (The Sixth Sense is a good example of a good movie made terrific by its ending)

A sense that the director has a story he wants to tell. Not some committee built and produced project. (The Lord of the Rings pictures fit here. There's passion in the story-telling)

A twist that adds freshness to the storytelling. The Cohen brothers with their marvelously skewed perspective, style and dialogue fit this category.

Even beyond these criteria, I must admit that there will always be films that resonate with me, even when they may not fit these criterion. (I'm a sucker for kung fu movies for example) Everyone needs guilty pleasures. But I would never argue that my guilty pleasures are well crafted films, just that I like em. Any one else have criteria for a well made picture?

 

[DanielM]

hmmm...as was said before to me a good movie entertains in some way ...then again I like zombie flix and think "Citizen Kane" is boring as is "Gone With the Wind".
which is not to say I dont like older b&w flix as I love the Marx Bros and Hitchcock..so what is a popcorn movie??

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

It is hard to make a good/entertaining action movie that doesn't seem derivative of other movies. It is fairly easy to make a "critically acclaimed" film: Have a prostitue or drug abuser, saddle them with abusive friends/pimps etc. Then show them slowly abusing themselves in poorly lighted scenes. Bonus if they die at the end.