Shameless Season 2 (1 Viewer)

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by ScottH /t/317003/shameless-season-2/30#post_3910824
Jeez...that episode covered more ground than perhaps any episode of any TV show I've ever seen.

Yeah I thought the same. Tons of shocks. The plan to sell the kid goes off the rails when, born with Down Syndrome, there are no takers. And, the gory and brutal attempted end of Monica, and Frank's suffering with whether or not he aided in it's happening.

And at the same time, you have some sort of sex thing going on with "Jimmy" (Steve's) fake wife and her real boyfriend which results in a corkscrew getting stuck in the guy's behind and yet, he's still yelling at Jimmy (Steve) about killing him..

Just.. wow.

 

[Charlie Campisi]

The plan to sell the kid goes off the rails when, born with Down Syndrome, there are no takers.

I don't think the kid had Down's syndrome. The actual father of the kid was Asian and I think Lip, believing the kid was his, saw the Asian face and mistakenly concluded it was Down's (or whoever it was in the delivery room who said the kid was Mongoloid.) I think the adoptive parents declined because the kid wasn't white.. At least that was the way I interpreted it, but it wasn't completely clear.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

^ The baby was both half Asian and had Down's syndrome.

 

[mattCR]

Yeah, it was the doctors paled reactions.. the doctors wouldn't look morose if the child was just asian. And it wasn't Lip who suggested Downs, it was Fiona.. and the doctor reaction in the room seemed to suggest she was right. That's why I thought that was some heartbreaking stuff. Having a good friend with a Down Syndrome child, I can tell you, Karen's world just changed.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

^ Or it would have, if she had any maternal feelings or sense of responsibility. My guess is that either Sheila and Jody end up raising the baby or, in light of what happened at the end of the episode, CPS steps in and puts the baby into foster care.

 

[Paul D G]

Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi /t/317003/shameless-season-2/30#post_3911531
I don't think the kid had Down's syndrome. The actual father of the kid was Asian

No disrespect to Charlie, but I've been seeing this interpretation a lot over the interwebs.

Recall, the nurse called the doctor over in a concerned voice. The doctor went over and everything went quiet. Clearly there was something wrong with the baby. Calling the doctor over wouldn't have been necessary had the baby simply been of a different race then expected. I'm sure this happens on occasion and the nurses just raise their eyebrows and go back to work (and wait for someone to start yelling).

 

[ScottH]

I don't think the baby had Downs at all. I agree it's probably not likely the nurses or doctors would even bat an eye over it, but it's not like this show has been all that realistic this season. I think the writers were trying to get a laugh out of the situation because downs babies have an eye thing going on that may be confused with Asian.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I'm going with the baby being half-Asian for now. Hopefully we'll find out in the finale if the baby is afflicted with Down's.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Definitely both half-Asian and Downs.
A lot of moments I loved in the finale. The scene where Fiona's having starting to have sex with Steve and all of the kids come in was one I've been expecting since the show started, and they waited until just the right moment to pull the trigger. Fiona at her maternal best. Bookended with the scene in the living room after the dinner when Fiona asks Jimmy/Steve if he's going to leave, because everybody leaves. It was a hopeful ending, which was nice.
Karen's written as a psychopath, so its the direction and Laura Slade Wiggins that shows otherwise; if she was a sociopath, she'd have no problem picking up the baby. But she knows if she holds the baby, she'll be attached so she goes to extreme measures to keep her distance. The scene after her ultimatum fails and Lip tells her she'll regret it was beautifully played. He knows her better than anyone. She knows he's right, but she heads off anyway. Lip's feelings toward her haven't changed, but he finally understands that she's beyond his saving. He takes a lesson from his father's life story and stops her from dragging him down with her.
And man, Chloe Webb brought it tonight as Monica. Her feelings and relationships with her children are so much more complex and devastating than Frank's policy of self-centered benign neglect. She loves her kids more than Frank does, and that makes her leaving even more painful. After getting dragged through the ringer yet again by Frank, Debbie makes a similar decision to Lip's with Karen: I wash my hands of you.
For all of that, it's sort of comforting knowing Frank's still out there stumbling around and scheming. It's like confirmation that the earth still spins and dawn will come in the morrow.

 

[mattCR]

Rosssums performance tonight was amongst the best on tv. Fantastic performance. So many thoughts about this but a very tight well done script.

 

[mattCR]

Ok, longer thoughts.

Here's the thing.. there are lots of great TV shows that show dysfunctional families. But the one thing that is hard to get across is that just because a family is dysfunctional, or poor, or in a bad situation doesn't dehumanize them or make them caring people.

This is something that hasn't really hit TV in a very long time - it was the key to a show like Roseanne's success; that a family could have real, significant problems.. but that you knew that in the center of the characters was real compassion for each other and that they did care about what happened. I think that's part of what makes a show like Shameless special.
Yes, there are a lot of despicable characters on the show who do bad things; but there is also a real bond of a family who was stuck with a bad lot in life; none of the kids or Fiona could chose their parents.. but they try to make the best out of the situation they have. Fiona's reaction to the victory of getting a GED, to her turning aside comfort to comfort her brothers & sisters after such a horrific event was great stuff; Fiona may not be an angel, but she knows that she's the only family these kids have. And because of that, she walks the walk and acts as far more then just a sister, she's everything to them. I thought everything about those center scenes worked.. from Fiona cleaning up Monica's blood in the kitchen so it wouldn't further terrorize her family to her comforting them in her room. I loved it.

In regards to Karen, yes, she plays it as a psychopath.. but the thing about Karen is that she isn't a psychopath.. and this sounds ridiculous, she's a character who plays as someone who wants to live without the remorse and guilt and so she is trying to BE a psychopath.. her repeated asks of "him or me" as well as standing on the sidewalk, confronted with Lip and saying "yeah" when he pointed out she'd have regrets.. of course she'll have regrets.. but she'll have them either way.. this is just the easier way to deal with it.

Great stuff, really.

 

[ScottH]

So it seems the baby does indeed have down's. Although I have to admit I'm still not 100% convinced and kept waiting for someone to jump in and say, "You idiots, the baby is asian, he doesn't have down's syndrome." And wouldn't a down's baby have to stay in the hospital for a good bit? And isn't it a felony to steal a baby from a hospital, even if it's family?

Another great season of Shameless (I'm assuming that was the season finale), although I thought it got a little too heavy the last two episodes. It seems the show in it's second season transitioned from being a light-fare dramedy to a full-fledged drama with some humor thrown in. Normally I wouldn't mind that at all, but I'm not sure the dark and heavy themes mesh with the fantastical nature of the show.