Seven Ending: Discuss... (spoilers inside) (1 Viewer)

[Gil Jawetz]

Here's the thing about Seven that people usually miss: It isn't about "killing" the people. It's about the symbolic nature of the situations (as Sommerset says, "Unless the act itself has meaning):

Gluttony: except for the kick to the stomach Doe didn't directly kill the man, rather he forced him to eat to death

Sloth: Doe made every effort to keep the man alive

Greed: Doe forced the man to kill himself

Lust: Doe forced someone else to do the killing. Who is the real symbol of lust in that situation, the man or woman?

Pride: Not only did Doe not directly kill the woman but he enabled her to save herself. WHen she didn't the symbolism of the act became apparent.

Obviously in a legal sense Doe was solely responsible for these deaths but symbolically (ie as they pertain to the movie) they weren't murders per se.

That's why Paltrow was just a prop. Doe is the Envy victim and Mills the Wrath victim. If you think about it Wrath is the most extroverted of the 7 sins, the one that most affects other people. So it is fitting that the symbolic punishment would be geared towards the "victim" walking away healthy from the crime with only his conscience left to punish him.

 

[Todd Hochard]

I thought the filmed ending, with Mills shooting Doe, was the best. To me, it showed just how far Doe's reach went. Creepy.

still seems the 7 deadly sins were unfulfilled without Mills' death sentence

Not so. All sins had a death:

1. Gluttony- the big guy.

2. Greed- the lawyer.

3. Sloth- the drug dealer (as implied by the doctor's comments)

4. Lust- the prostitute.

5. Pride- the model.

6. Envy- Mill's wife and unborn child.

7. Wrath- Doe.

Doe orchestrating the whole thing, knowing that Mills would complete the "task," was quite masterful, IMO. Particularly, since Doe wouldn't have to stick around for the consequences of his actions. VERY disturbing.

Todd

 

[Gil Jawetz]

There's no way Mills would get the death penalty. Check my previous post for a different interpretation.

 

[Gil Jawetz]

Also, the scripted ending would have been a cop out. Doe "winning" in the end was a sick and satisfying ending that left people feeling really rotten... not an all together bad thing for a Hollywood movie.

Plus, with 2 negative endings under his belt it left Fincher open to really surprise the hell out of us with his next ending. i can't describe the feeling the final 10 minutes of The Game left me with.

 

[TheoGB]

Sorry. The 'Original' ending: i.e. the one we have but no epilogue. That's what I'm talking about. Pitt shoots Spacey - blackout - movie ends. Cool.

 

[Gil Jawetz]

Gotcha. I've heard the grumbling about the ending on the DVD commentaries and the Criterion LD but honestly it doesn't bother me at all. Cutting straight to black might have worked or it might have felt like a mistake. Having seen the movie many times I've never felt that the current ending doesn't work at all. Freeman sells it to me, as does Pitt's glazed look in the back of the squad car.

 

[BertFalasco]

Man, if David had gone with the shooting then fade to black, that would;ve sucked!..IMO..

Didn't DL have test screenings with the multiple endings and see/listen to reactions? ( I mean, a movie like this wouldn't get hapy jolly claps, but some other way of knowing..hhmmm..).

Also, what if they just let JD plea guilty. His plan would've been ruined, unless he found another detective like BP with a like scenario, right?

-Bert

 

[TheoGB]

Heh. They talk about the screenings for the movie on the commentary.
The screens had the fade to black ending but no credits. Fincher told the guy running house that he had to leave the lights down for about 10 secs after the ending like it would be with credits to allow it to 'sink in'.
What did they do? Lights full on as soon as the end came. :rolleyes
Add to that how they got the screening audience in: "Would you like to see a movie starring Brad Pitt (Legends of the Fall) and Morgan Freeman (Driving Miss Daisy)?" Those idiots at the stuio!
Sorry I've kind of assumed anyone who liked the movie would have the NL edition and have watched all the material. Fincher's feelings about the ending were that Morgan's voice over was so unecessary - if it had been all through the movie, maybe, but really it's there to make the studio guys feel better.
I don't (as I say) think the current ending is awful but the fade to black one also has a lot of power.
I think we can all be glad the Fincher left us the cinema version as we saw it, only colour correcting and changing headroom - it's nice to see that he didn't attempt to make a new cut of it or anything.

 

[Dave Barth]

I thought the ending of the movie was perfect. It was so bleak, and so fitting for this picture on moral and spiritual decay.

 

[Jim DiJoseph]

I remember vividly that this movie kept me engaged the whole way up until that scene. And the only thing that broke me out of the trance was the let-downs of previous Hollywood trash. I thought to myself, "There is no way in hell this man can NOT pull that trigger. I will hate this movie until my dying days if he doesn't..." BLAM!!! Then I was back in, utterly stunned. Great movie, and very meaningful on so many levels.

 

[Mark Gurney]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the most angering aspect of Se7en was in the way that John Doe died for his sin. For the most part, all the other victims were tortured (the model can be discounted) to their death.

A more important issue (to me anyway) is not whether these victims deserved to die, but rather that John Doe does not have the right to make that decision. But he did seem to think he did, and after torturing all these people in unthinkable ways, he is simply shot in the head. We can assume that he dies instantly. Someone said that there was another alternate ending where Mills kills with a knife...

If you were Mills, wouldn't you want to make Doe suffer? I know this might be morbid, but if I experienced the loss Mills did (an ultimate loss, worse than death), then I would want to make Doe suffer. In fact, I would want to control my feelings, beat the shit out of him and then allow him to rot in prison. Exactly what Doe did not expect, what he wanted least, destroying his whole plan.

But who am I to say this, I was not there, who knows how one would act when put in that position. Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Brian Kissinger]

I don't think that Mills had "sense" enough at the time to contemplate what exactly to do. He is enraged and just wants to hurt and destroy Doe. With a gun in his hand, I think it would only be "natural" to shoot him. Which he does several times, even though not necessary. The first shot surely killed him, the rest were him releasing all his anger and fury.

 

[Alex Spindler]

To do anything other than what he does wouldn't work for me. Far to rational a response under the circumstances. If he were holding a tire iron, I would expect him to never stop.

Nope, I would be surprised if anyone would have a rational reaction such as taking him to prison under those circumstances. If they did, I would check to see if they were human and not vulcan.

 

[Joseph Young]

Great, great ending. Everything about it is perfect. The ending narration does not feel 'tacked on' to me, it did not feel like a forced summary of what just happened (which is what most 'tacked on' endings do). Eloquent, moving, even a little hopeful. Does the ending have to be completely nihilistic in order to pack a punch?

My opinion is, ending the film on the dourest and most shocking of notes (the shooting) would be more of a cop-out. By showing Pitt's character and allowing Freeman's character to speak, Fincher is staring fearlessly into the face of what has happened... and audiences have to also. More unflinching if you ask me.

Joseph

 

[Mike Graham]

I definitely have to agree that the movie ends on a hopeful note. Somerset states that although the world is a terrible place, its still worth fighting for. Its at once very bleak, yet at the same time shows Somerset's determination to try and stop evil.
Although he can be considered a very cynical person, to me he seems like someone who started out very innocent and hopeful, but was crushed at the sight of some of the crimes he had to investigate; he was too weary to raise a child in a hellish world, thinking he was doing the child a favor in the end, but telling Mills' wife that he regretted the decision shows him to be a man who doesn't really believe that the entire world has gone down the toilet.
On the New Line DVD, the alternate opening sequence, showing Somerset buying an old house outside the city limits, really seems to build on these ideals.
Great thriller; a definite must-see

 

[Richard Kim]

I definitely have to agree that the movie ends on a hopeful note. Somerset states that although the world is a terrible place, its still worth fighting for. Its at once very bleak, yet at the same time shows Somerset's determination to try and stop evil.

Just curious, but are you implying that Somerset will stay on the force? I did not see it that way. He was all set to retire after the John Doe case, and I believe that the final tragic events that he witnessed was the last straw.

 

[Alex Spindler]

I think it's his "I'll be around" coupled with his "world worth fighting for" that makes us believe that he isn't quitting the force after all.

I consider Seven as it stands on DVD now as a perfect film. I don't know if I would feel the same way if it just faded without Sommerset's epilogue, which I think is perfect in tone and wording for the film as I experienced it.