Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (11 Viewers)

[FanCollector]

Thinking through the question really illustrates how rarely the ship's phasers were used in the first season, which is why the process of elimination was so quick. (They used them in The Alternative Factor also, but that was a distinctly different, non-stock shot, so I knew it wasn't that one.)

 

[Nelson Au]

And you reminded me of the often cost conscience decisions that Mr. Justman was constantly making in the first season!

 

[FanCollector]

I think it's my turn one way or another...Star Trek is filled with literary references, both overt and implied. But less often, there are references to literature that had yet to be written. Which instances can you name of "future" poetry and prose being referenced in Star Trek? If the author's name is mentioned, please include it. If not, just cite the title or description of the work mentioned in the show. (I am familiar with the examples from the series, but I know for certain that there are more examples in the spin-offs. Feel free to extend your answers to include the later shows. I may just have to look up your answers to check them.)

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,Is "Star light, star bright ... I wish I may, I wish I might" from an actual poem, or is it one yet to be written when referenced in Conscience Of the King? Also, what about the example referenced in City On the Edge Of Forever written by an author who will eventually use the words "Let me help" (over "I love you")?

 

[Nelson Au]

My love has wings......one of the most passionate love sonnets written by Tarbell on Canopis?

 

[FanCollector]

Well, that didn't take long! And it's a tie. (Star Light, etc. is a traditional folk poem that goes back a hundred or a hundred and fifty years.) So one point each. I thought he said "Tarbold," but in any case, it's either correct or close enough.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,Since you said we could extend our answers to other series, there is "Ode to Spot" (Data) (TNG), and Q attempts to use a Drabian love sonnet to try to woo Capt. Janeway (VOY). I don't have a title for the last example. There are some examples of Klingon poetry as well, but since I can't come up with any of the titles, I mention this only for informational purposes.

 

[Nelson Au]

Oh yes. Gary did say Tarbold. It wasn't clear in my mind.

 

[Nelson Au]

I'm still wondering if there might be a case for one or two more examples of future poetry. But it could be my imagination. I suppose the love song Spock is forced to sing by Parman to Miss Chapel doesn't really count. I'm not trying to score another point, just wondering.

 

[FanCollector]

No, by all means keep thinking. I could have missed one for sure. I thought about Plato's Stepchildren. There's a lot of verse in it, but the rest is all identifiable. Maiden Wine always seemed like it was either implanted in Spock's head or improvised; but it's possible that it was the work of some really terrible interplanetary songwriter!

 

[Nelson Au]

Still thinking Lee, but time limits me recently. But perhaps there are no other instances of future poets.Since Scott and I tied last time, then I will take the next question as I have one in mind. But given today's date, I have another question in mind. I have not vetted it.Name all the times Kirk was manipulated to fall in love with a woman?

 

[FanCollector]

Chess? Billiards? Conversation?Rayna Kapec.

 

[Nelson Au]

Why not all three? Yes! One of the more traumatic experiences for Kirk.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,
How about Elaan (from Elaan of Troyius) and Nona? I'm not sure about Odonna, but it's your question.

 

[Nelson Au]

"I choose you, you choose me."Yes, the old Elasian tears trick! I had forgotten about Nona and I think she counts as her magic spells certainly had a hold on poor Jim. Odona, I felt counts. She and Poppin J Hodin certainly planned an elaborate trick to fool Kirk and for him to fall for her.That's a great list of women who get what they want! I'm not sure there are anymore?Deela tricked Kirk, but he didn't fall for it, instead, he tricked her. But he certainly had some affection for her. And he certainly had some affection for Shana, though he tricked her a little too. In the case of Helen Noel, I wonder about her. She did seem to have a little fantasy for Kirk, but Dr. Adams was the one who tricked Kirk into thinking he loved Helen.So that's 3 for Scott and 1 for Lee. Looks like Scott is up for two turns!

 

[FanCollector]

Great, holiday-appropriate question! I would say that if Rayna counts, then I think Helen Noel counts. In both cases, Kirk is either manipulated or mind-controlled into falling for the girl by someone besides herself.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Lee, it was fortuitous the holiday was today! You know, I think I have to agree with your argument Lee about Helen Noel and Rayna as being pawns by other men to trick Kirk into having feelings for them. Seems like we score that as another point for Lee! While still on the topic, it seems for Spock, he was not exactly tricked, but altered by the spores to allow him to love Leila.

 

[FanCollector]

Thanks for the point, but I was just genuinely interested in the discussion. I think the Leila question is really important to one's interpretation of the episode and even of the character of Spock. Did the spores make him love Leila? Or did he love Leila already, as she suspects, and did the spores merely allow him to act on it? I'm honestly not sure of my own position on the question, but it seems like a key part of understanding what happens in This Side of Paradise.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,

And as I'm sure you'll agree, that one is easily one of the very best episodes of the entire series.Nelson,Let's sit on this one for a while, as I think we may be able to come up with one or two more for your question.

 

[Nelson Au]

That's a great point about Paradise. And I had not considered that question before, if Spock already had feelings for Leila or did the Spores made him love her. He does say he can love her now after being infected. He was part of the commune now, where belonging was important. Scott, okay. Perhaps there are more devious women out there who stole Kirk's heart for her own personal satisfaction. Or was manipulated into it be other factions.