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Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (2 Viewers)

Nelson Au

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Yeah, the Selznick joke was a good one as it illustrated the point well! :)Regarding the CBS deal. Oh I see, so any Star Trek material that is related to TOS or the series with the original cast could be released during a period before Star Trek Into Darkness was released. I can see that. JJ's film didn't want to have anything come out and take any sales from the JJ film and products. I guess that the brand problem they were talking about. Seems so silly, it's all from the original Star Trek, yet it sounds like the Bad Robot people want to make their own brand of Star Trek and do their global dominance. I find this development interesting and I'd like to learn more about it. A franchise like Star Trek has certainly become a global mainstream product. Toys, games, videos, books and so on. A short digression, my MeTV affiliate started airing the new season last weekend, Remington Steele being one series. I was surprised by the coincidence, the series was co-created by Robert Butler and the pilot and episode that aired today was directed by Butler. This second episode guested Loki! And The Streets of San Francisco airing today has a two-fer. Mariette Hartley and Clint Howard as the friend of Hartley's son. Wow, Clint looks so young. Back to Star Trek. Scott, not to appear to be ignoring your question. It's a tough one! I need more clues, but Lee is good at figuring these puzzles out! So I'll keep looking.I did watch The Naked Time today. And I read what Cushman wrote about it. It was surprising the story of Black and how he felt to be re-written by Roddenberry. I was also surprised by the Nimoy contribution to suggest Spock's break down be moved to a private place rather then the corridor. I knew Takei was laboring for Sulu, but don't recall the Nimoy input. What I really enjoyed are the anecdotes about Marc Daniels and how he was so good for Star Trek with his cool professionalism to get two episodes done in a row. Also it was interesting to read the recollections of Stewart Moss and Bruce Hyde. Great comments! Moss really got Star Trek.
 

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Scott, I think I am ready to second Nelson's request for an additional number clue.The merchandising issue used to be a lot simpler I think, before the corporate split between CBS and Paramount. Now there are weird divisions that require agreements that didn't have to exist before. Let's say you want to release a poster of various pictures of Captain Kirk through the years. Now you would have to get permission an make agreements with two separate companies, as well as William Shatner. Bad for JJ Abrams, but again, probably turned out better for us.You wouldn't think that, after the previous few episodes, that Black would have been surprised at being rewritten by Roddenberry, but I suppose it is human nature that he was. Once again, though, looking at the breakdown of what happened in which draft, I do think Roddenberry improved the original (as did Nimoy's contribution). Making the episode as probing for Spock as it was is probably why we remember it so fondly, and adding Riley and his delusions of grandeur surely made it a lot more fun.(Speaking of Nimoy's contributions, wasn't the memo from The Enemy Within surprising? The one in which Roddenberry asks him not to make up stuff like the Vulcan nerve pinch anymore?)The Streets of San Francisco is a show that I never got as a kid and really enjoy now. Not sure why; there were lots of adult-oriented shows I liked then that I just got more from over the years, but that was one that never caught me then but I find a lot to admire in today. Perhaps the relationship between the leads requires a little more maturity to appreciate? Or maybe I was just slow.Robert Butler may not have cared much for Star Trek, but he really was (retired now, no?) a wonderful director. They loved him at MTM because of what he did that first year of Hill Street Blues. His idea for Remington Steele included everything except...Remington Steele. He proposed the idea of the invented boss, but didn't imagine anyone taking the part. So the MTM execs connected him with Michael Gleason who said that it was a good idea for a movie, but if a guy showed up, then that would be a series. Butler directed the first five or six and then moved on, as was his wont. Incidentally, the premiere wasn't the pilot. NBC said they didn't want a "premise pilot." They wanted to see what it would be like once the partnership had begun, so the pilot was actually Tempered Steele, the one with Lou Antonio (Lokai). After they filmed three or four more, NBC changed its mind and said it was too complicated a premise not to explain and they asked for an episode that established the characters to run first. I think one reason Zimbalist and Brosnan seemed to click so well in that premiere is that they had actually already filmed several shows together.(Incidentally, upon looking at the ME-TV schedule on the onscreen guide, my wife asked, "Why did they make a channel out of all our DVDs?")
 

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And until reading this book, I didn't realize how long the director prep typically was, so I didn't realize how good Marc Daniels and Vincent McEveety had to be to double up. And Daniels's second episodes in both cases (The Naked Time and The Menagerie) were the quickest filming schedules for the year! No wonder he kept coming back.
 

Ockeghem

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Great information as usual, guys!Okay, I'm feeling generous, so here are two bonus clues:

2000

20
 

Nelson Au

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I really liked Zimbalist and Brosnan together, that was a good pairing. I don't recall that Butler wasn't as enthusiastic about Star Trek. That was interesting that they went back and filmed a pilot style episode to introduce the characters. I have not seen this series since it aired. It's fun to relive the 80's! Seeing Brosnan then, I can see his similar mannerisms used as Bond. Too bad Zimbalist's TV and film career wasn't as splashy.I forgot about that story that Roddenberry asked Nimoy to not make up stuff on set! That was another surprise! Apparently he didn't listen and went on to do the Vulcan salute. Unless that was done with Roddenberry's approval. I agree that John Black shouldn't have been surprised! I agree as the result of the collaboration of ideas, the episode is a classic. Despite Cushman hating the environmental suits and the stupid act of taking the glove off! That was great to read Moss's recollection that he asked Daniels why should he be so stupid to take the glove off and he said, or else we wouldn't have an episode! Reviewing the episodes this way is terrific. I never watched in production order and when I did try a few episodes, I didn't always have the mindset that these are early shows and things are developing. So it's a great way to watch. Plus I can really better appreciate Finnerman's tortured self doubts about his ability as I can see the purist of his vision of lighting with depth and shadow and color. Later episodes, the lighting seems flatter. Probably due to lack of time to set up.
 

Nelson Au

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I grew up in San Francisco. I probably wasn't that phased by The Streets of San Francisco. It is neat now to see it and see how the city used to look. The pairing of Malden and Douglas also was what the show work. Scott, I was going to guess The Naked Time because I just saw it!
 

Ockeghem

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"I grew up in San Francisco. I probably wasn't that phased by The Streets of San Francisco."

Nelson (or Mr. Sulu if you like),

You didn't just write that, did you? Nicely done on two fronts! :)

No, it's not The Naked Time.

I have watched the episodes from every series in production order, and once I owned all of the series it became my preferred way to view them. Although not essential, I do think it matters for hardcore fans of TOS, and perhaps for a couple of the other series. I've been told by a few fans of VOY that it doesn't matter too much for that series, although I still do it for VOY as well.
 

Nelson Au

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That's funny, I didn't even realize that I had paraphrased that Sulu line from ST 4.

You mean the kid with the red hair in that photo? The first thing I thought of when I saw the startrek.com store page was that this must be the CBS arm of the merchandising deals we discussed yesterday. Though there is stuff from all the TV shows, there's stuff from Into Darkness. I do like like those black shirts from the film. startrek.com must have a different deal being the main Star Trek site to offer merchandise from both the TV and movie sides.

I'm more used to the airing order of the TOS episodes Scott as that's how they've been listed in the older books as well as the DVD's and blu ray. I have them now all in production order for my digital copies.

I was able to stay awake long enough to read part of the Charlie X entry in the Cushman book. It never occurred to me that the X designation was referring to how uneducated he was! I thought it was more a way to say, who is this kid, he has no past. It was nice that the writing staff was so supportive of DC Fontana's work.
 

Ockeghem

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Nelson,That's how I had always taken the 'X' in Charlie X as well. The book really does sound interesting.
 

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I think the split in merchandising comes at the manufacturing level, rather than the retail level. So startrek.com which offers products from different licensed manufacturers can sell whatever it wants. The different businesses making the stuff may have to go separately to CBS and Paramount now, depending on the source of the images.I, too, never thought of the X in Charlie X that way. It does seem as though everyone was nice to Dorothy Fontana, but on the other hand, her script seemed to require less rewrite work than so many others. (Not compared to the upcoming Gene Coon scripts, but they are a whole separate category.)
 

Nelson Au

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Yes, of course! Startrek.com is at the retail level. And an entity like La La Land Records is at the manufacturing level so they need the licensing from CBS. I should know this being in the business I'm in! I'm slowly making my way through the book as time allows! You've got me curious about the Gene Coon entries. Scott, forgot to mention. When you added those two additional numbers, I see while The Naked Time wasn't the answer, Psi 2000 fit! :)
 

Ockeghem

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Nelson,Good catch on the number 2000.

Nelson and Lee,Let me know if you want another hint. I have a number that will pretty much give it away, but that's okay.
 

Nelson Au

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Finished the section on Charlie X. A couple of surprises. One was that Roddenberry's contribution of the script was to sex it up with the hormones. I thought it was interesting that Fontana stressed Charlie's innocence. But I think it made sense that he altered the man to man talk to have Kirk do it instead of McCoy. Though that cost Kelley more screen time. it seems like a minor contribution as I can imagine Charlie still having a crush on Janice even without all the hormone stuff added. And Fontana was very nice to give all the credit to Gene Roddenberry even though they all knew she developed Roddenberry's outline and made it her own. Robertson feeling the episode was strong still felt it would loose audience from a lack of action is a surprise in that he said both! He loved the script. Was the drop in ratings in the second hour because he was right, or the movie airing that night. I think it was the movie. The book is really revealing the grinding nature of TV work. Marc Daniels finishes The Naked Time at noon and they start work on Charlie after lunch. I wonder what Dobkin's problem was that made the cast so uneasy. Whatever was going on, they sure don't show it in their performances. Also, it's interesting to read the fan mail he includes. Most is written so prolitely and with genuine appreciation. It's refreshing! Looking forward to reading Balance of Terror.
 

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I don't want the spoiler hint, Scott. But just for certainty's sake...are each of the numbers used separately and distinctly? Or are some of them partial? For example, when you say 14, is that definitely 14? Or could it be part of a stardate or a decimal or something like that?
 

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