Samsung rolls out OLED TV -- for $13K... (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Collins]

I think this is another technology I will be waiting on.

From Reuters --

Samsung Electronics Co Ltd launched its first OLED TV on Thursday, taking the ultra-thin technology into a nascent market despite tenacious production challenges that keep costs high while prevailing LCD screens only get better and cheaper.

The world's biggest TV manufacturer has staked its display future on OLED - organic light emitting diode - technology and its success with smaller screens has bolstered its smartphone market share and earnings. But big screens are likely to take a much slower road to profits.

OLED technology is widely believed to offer the potential for better picture quality than standard liquid crystal display screens, with crisper picture resolution, faster response times and high-contrast images. It also allows for curved televisions, which manufacturers say offer a more immersive experience.

Samsung's $13,000 price tag on its curved 55-inch OLED television is the same as similar offerings from LG Electronics Inc (066570.KS), some five times more than popular LCD equivalents.

It's interesting how the manufactures say that a curved screen will provide a more immersive experience. Maybe if you have a 10' OLED HDTV? Also wondering how/why it is "widely" believed that OLED will have a better picture quality. I guess the jury will be out.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

wondering how/why it is "widely" believed that OLED will have a better picture quality. I guess the jury will be out.

Don't know how or why, but the OLEDs in my 2011 HMD that I use daily produces the best quality picture of any of the plasma or LCD displays in my home. That is also seriously comparing the limited resolution 720P OLED headset ability to my other in-house native 1080P displays and native 1080P DLP front projector. Blacks and dark scenes are phenomenal, crispness, clarity and color visually set a higher bar.

 

[schan1269]

OLED produces a picture "the same way" plasma does. (which is why, in my opinion, LCD will die next. Plasma can get even cheaper, and will have to. LCD won't have the chance to get cheap enough before OLED kills it. I wouldn't be surprised if the 37" and 32" plasma reappears once LCD has died)

Each individual pixel creates its own brightness and color(as in...what plasma's do).

OLED(or AMOLED) is where it is going. There is even rumor it is possible to create a Transparent OLED as an AT Transparent OLED.

To catch up the rest of the class...AT is Acoustic Transparent. Yep...you can put your center BEHIND the TV instead of over/under it.

 

[Kevin Collins]

(which is why, in my opinion, LCD will die next. Plasma can get even cheaper, and will have to.

Rumor was/is that Panasonic is going to stop/quit producing plasma TV sets. To my knowledge, no one else is producing plasma. I don't see LCD dying before plasma, even though I prefer plasma over LCD. There is another post that I did a couple months ago that showed the decline in plasma sets being purchased.

 

[schan1269]

LG/Zenith and Samsung still(and will continue) produce plasma. One rumor for Panny is actually killing their entire consumer line(LCD and plasma) and joining DuPont for "printed board" OLED.

 

[schan1269]

Basically there are two camps for OLED...Samsung/LG and DuPont.If DuPont works out the kinks in their version, Samsung/LG is dead in the water.

 

[Kevin Collins]

LG/Zenith and Samsung still(and will continue) produce plasma. One rumor for Panny is actually killing their entire consumer line(LCD and plasma) and joining DuPont for "printed board" OLED.

That doesn't mean that plasma will gain any market share. Check out this post regarding plasma market share. I certainly wouldn't be betting on plasma (even though I prefer it over LCD any day). Not sure where/why you think that LCD will die out and plasma will continue. Can you explain that?

Also, LG and Sammy aren't even in the same ballpark in terms of performance compared to Panny plasma's.

 

[schan1269]

The "market planners" are planning that the 2015 models will be when OLED will become price competitive in 65"+. By price competitive...65" 4k LCD will cost $6500(top model line)65" 4k OLED will cost $900065" 4k plasma can ring in around $5000Who's dumb enough to buy the LCD?

 

[schan1269]

But, it all hinges on...1. Can Japan get back on track? Panny, Sony, Toshiba and Sharp could all be "gone" by 2015.2. Will DuPont's version of OLED be consumer ready by 2015? That is Panny's hope.3. If OLED really becomes price competitive with LCD...somebody could bring plasma back(Konka or Seiki could purchase Panny's tech for 4k plasma. And don't think that is "far fetched". If you remember...Tata bought Jaguar/Land Rover to gain traction in the US. Tata, next year, is debuting a car that will have no problems passing US safety.).

 

[Kevin Collins]

which is why, in my opinion, LCD will die next.

The "market planners" are planning that the 2015 models will be when OLED will become price competitive in 65"+.By price competitive...65" 4k LCD will cost $6500(top model line)65" 4k OLED will cost $900065" 4k plasma can ring in around $5000Who's dumb enough to buy the LCD?

Where did you come up with those price points? Specifically where plasma would be cheaper than LCD? Still not clear how you think that LCD will die before plasma.

 

[schan1269]

Once OLED gets to a point where it is "cost effective", it will come down in price. My price points are a crap shoot. Basically "half" what the cost is now. Two years is an eternity in CE and most product falls to "half cost" in 3-4 years.

But, this isn't the roaring 80s and 90s. This isn't a leap forward that was obvious like CD and DVD. This is a content-less upgrade. Most of my belief is hinged on the printed board OLED. DuPont has been saying they can make it for as little as "pennies per square inch".

What is the holdup? Longevity. Right now it isn't "pennies per square inch". It is dollars per square inch. Panasonic displayed one at CES. You can talk all day long about how it looks, how little power it uses(darn near none) and how light it is. But, how long will it last? There they go...ducking for cover on that one.

If printed board is the future of OLED...LCD is dead.
While DuPont gets their R&D money back...some cheap Chinese company that wants an inroad to the US and Europe could buy Panny's 4K plasma tech and use it to get over here.

 

[FoxyMulder]

That doesn't mean that plasma will gain any market share. Check out this post regarding plasma market share. I certainly wouldn't be betting on plasma (even though I prefer it over LCD any day). Not sure where/why you think that LCD will die out and plasma will continue. Can you explain that?

Also, LG and Sammy aren't even in the same ballpark in terms of performance compared to Panny plasma's.

Samsung plasma is very much in the ballpark, you are right about LG though.

My Samsung 60 inch E6500 produces great image quality, has some nice black levels, both in 2D and 3D, absolutely ZERO image retention( not to be confused with burn in ) unlike almost every plasma on the market which has some and this is verified by CNET who accidentally left their set on overnight, the latest Samsung F8500 produces black levels which are almost as deep as the Panasonic sets but offers other benefits over the Panasonic's, LG on the other hand continues to produce substandard plasma sets. OLED will not make inroads anytime soon and 4K LCD ( LED backlit ) sets could steal their thunder.

 

[Kevin Collins]

Samsung plasma is very much in the ballpark, you are right about LG though.

My Samsung 60 inch E6500 produces great image quality, has some nice black levels, both in 2D and 3D, absolutely ZERO image retention( not to be confused with burn in ) unlike almost every plasma on the market which has some and this is verified by CNET who accidentally left their set on overnight, the latest Samsung F8500 produces black levels which are almost as deep as the Panasonic sets but offers other benefits over the Panasonic's, LG on the other hand continues to produce substandard plasma sets. OLED will not make inroads anytime soon and 4K LCD ( LED backlit ) sets could steal their thunder.

Something must have changed in this years models. Every year prior to this I have looked at the Sammy's and their black levels were barely better than the LCD models. What model in particular where you looking at and what model and year of Panny were you comparing it to? Panny now is almost like the Pioneer Kuro greatness in black levels. I know Adam (the another owner here) has a Panny and he has never commented about burn in. I haven't actually heard of that for years now. Joel Silver from ISF did a huge study on plasma screens a few years back the debunked the whole burn in issue for modern plasma displays.

Use a Minolta LS-100 and tell me what the light output level is for a 0 IRE pattern is, then we can determine how good it is in regards to black level from a Panny. Also, Panny is one of the few companies that iSF certified that allows for automated calibration with SpectraCal's Calman software.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Something must have changed in this years models. Every year prior to this I have looked at the Sammy's and their black levels were barely better than the LCD models. What model in particular where you looking at and what model and year of Panny were you comparing it to? Panny now is almost like the Pioneer Kuro greatness in black levels. I know Adam (the another owner here) has a Panny and he has never commented about burn in. I haven't actually heard of that for years now. Joel Silver from ISF did a huge study on plasma screens a few years back the debunked the whole burn in issue for modern plasma displays.

Use a Minolta LS-100 and tell me what the light output level is for a 0 IRE pattern is, then we can determine how good it is in regards to black level from a Panny. Also, Panny is one of the few companies that iSF certified that allows for automated calibration with SpectraCal's Calman software.

Read this review from an ISF calibrator who incidentally is a member of this site too regarding Samsungs F8500, a superb television, better in daylight than any Panasonic and not far off when viewing at night.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps64f8500-201305012945.htm

I also didnt state my Samsung E6500 was as deep with black level as the Panasonic's but it performs better in other areas, it's black level is sufficiently deep enough to be acceptable, from 2012 on i believe Samsung have improved enough to be good enough with black levels, 2011 models and back were not good enough.

Incidentally Samsung perform better in 3D due to the way Panasonic implement their 3D, you can also read about that at the above site.

 

[schan1269]

I will concur that the E6500 and above Samsung plasma have leapfrogged LG.

Lower than that, stick with an LG.

LG is hedging their bet on OLED as well. They have obviously parked their PDP R&D on the side of the road(one reason, they are trumpeting passive 3D).

Take out 3D and Samsung is a distant 3rd on the radar of the plasma you should be buying.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Take out 3D and Samsung is a distant 3rd on the radar of the plasma you should be buying.

Explain that remark. ?

 

[schan1269]

My remark comes from the eternity that Samsung has used lousy caps in their power supplies. It seems "every two years" another round of TVs are added to the class action lawsuit.

It is well known that Samsung produces product with zero attention to detail. I bought a Samsung HE washer/dryer. The dryer, not even a year old, has blown two bearings on the drum. The washer is fine. But the dryers are so bad at blowing bearings that (and it isn't like I'm in a super big city) the local "fix-it guy" keeps the bearing on his truck.

 

[FoxyMulder]

My remark comes from the eternity that Samsung has used lousy caps in their power supplies. It seems "every two years" another round of TVs are added to the class action lawsuit.

It is well known that Samsung produces product with zero attention to detail. I bought a Samsung HE washer/dryer. The dryer, not even a year old, has blown two bearings on the drum. The washer is fine. But the dryers are so bad at blowing bearings that (and it isn't like I'm in a super big city) the local "fix-it guy" keeps the bearing on his truck.

I have one of their sets, it doesn't buzz and as far as i am aware they changed the caps from 2012 onwards perhaps due to this class action lawsuit you talk about, i think Samsung is a serious contender now and if you are buying a plasma set they are worth considering and in the same ballpark as Panasonic.

I actually looked at a GT60 last year and played around with it, i then bought it from John Lewis, paid the money, they said 3 weeks to deliver it, i cancelled and got the E6500 from Amazon, they delivered it in 2 days, i ordered late evening so really that's one day and i thought the Samsung looked better after i set it all up correctly, particularly due to the fact it's a large TV and we still have a lot of SD programming in the UK, the E6500 has such a superior scaling chip it makes SD content look watchable ( in conjunction with the MPEG noise reduction switched on ) It also works better than the competition with regards 50hz which we in Europe are still lumbered with.

Yes the Panasonic sets are excellent, Samsung have put effort in and improved considerably and are getting better still.

 

[schan1269]

Was not aware Samsung wised up and is using better caps. If that is indeed the case, maybe they have leapfrogged LG for good.

But back to the OLED vs everything else...and Japan becoming a television/CE also ran...

I've already seen Samsung tout "OLED, the next thing after LED".

Samsung and their false marketing tools. Vizio does the same thing. Can't wait to see what they bring out of the gutters to sell their 4K OLED. Japan needs to help itself. Like I alluded to earlier, Toshiba, Sony, Panny and Sharp could all be out of the TV business by 2015. Except for Sony(and who cares?), none of them have aligned with LG or Samsung for OLED panels. I'm not even sure if Sharp or Toshiba even have an OLED plan.

Regardless of the 4K, OLED is where everything will be by 2017 anyway. Heck by then South Africa could encroach on US/Europe television sales.

Again this is all based on DuPont and printed board. Once it lands at a competitive price...it is over for LCD, plasma and projectors.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Panasonic and Sony are joining forces to develop OLED sets, they are doing this due to the threat from LG and Samsung.