Running Windows on a Mac, or New Office Computer (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

For professional use, I want to buy an 27" Retina iMac or Mac Pro with 4k Monitor and install Windows 10 for 100% Windows use. At a quick glance, this is cost effective and meets the practical needs for my cramped office. But I don't know how well the Retina iMacs or Mac Pros support Windows. Is this a reasonable solution? Thoughts or recommendations?



Background:

In 2013, I think, I had to spec and purchase a pair of engineering workstations for my office. Because of the peculiarities of this office, what should be a one month process of setting a budget, speccing the PCs, and buying, and setting them up ... took a year and a half. I ordered from a site a coworker recommended, MicroVelocity. Good prices on high-end Intel systems.


I need again to order a computer or two for the office. But I've learned a few lessons.

1) Sharp-cornered, monstrous 20lb cases are terrible. We don't have the office space for these. And they get moved around enough that a svelte box is better.


2) We don't upgrade internals. It sounds so good up front. But due to red tape, by the time we should consider more ram, it seems we're at a point of buying a new computer So again, svelte over internal upgradability.


3) The expectation was we'd do multi-core processing, CUDA GPU analysis, and need more RAM than atoms in the universe. Actually, no. High end is still good. But I don't necessarily need 64GB Xenon Uber.


4) I thought desk space would be super tight, so I bought a slim 24" instead of a 27" monitor. That was a mistake. We can find space for a 27" monitor.


5) Windows is still required.


I don't use Windows PCs (except IT-managed 5-year old corporate boxes). I don't shop PCs. Shopping for the PC two years ago was a pain, for all my effort and research, don't have confidence I made the right trades. And I don't have time at work (and don't get paid for time at home) researching computers of office purchase. I think this is a sensible and easily defensible purchase. But I've only dabbled in Windows / BootCamp at home. I've never used it for 100% professional engineering use. Thoughts?

 

[JohnRice]

I have one computer at work I need to run Windows, and have for several years. I use Parallels, not Boot Camp, and it's always worked very well. I can also easily run both systems with only 8GB RAM, but the demands for this computer aren't very high, so at least 16 might be better. Parallels allows you to designate how much RAM is allotted to each OS, plus it's rather cheap.


What I can't give feedback on is running Windows on a high DPI monitor. The Apple OS is still ultimately running things. For example, with printers and other peripherals, if you have an Apple driver installed, you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) install a Windows driver to use them in Windows. I find Windows drivers completely baffling, so this is a good thing for me. The point is, I expect the Apple OS is still running the video. I just don't know if windows will display the high DPI or not. It should be easy to find out.


The Retina iMac is an exceptional value if you need a high DPI computer.

 

[DaveF]

Thanks for the input. For my use, I think I have to use BootCamp. The IT obstacles to setting up a virtualized Windows environment may be insurmountable.

 

[BobO'Link]

I do network administration and IT support for a large corporation (~6000 users) running a mix of Apple and Windows systems.


For most users I'd recommend some type of virtualization for Windows on OSX (either the free VirtualBox for personal use or Parallels or VMWare Fusion for professional use) but based on what you've said I don't think either of the more robust "pro" products would be 100% suitable.


We find that Bootcamp works well, *IF* the version of Windows you want to run is supported. According to this article (device list is at the bottom) the 27" Retina iMac *should* run Windows 10 in a Bootcamp session. The main thing is to be sure how much HD space you want to allocate to each partition *before* you start. While it can be changed later you run the risk of OS corruption if you need to perform a partition change later, especially if you under estimate the OSX side needs.


If nothing's changed in the Bootcamp process be sure to follow the instructions to the letter, even if they sound odd. One prior requirement was to format your Windows partition during the OS install by doing a "Custom" install. If you don't do this WIndows may not install but I've not tested it and don't know if this is still a requirement with Yosemite and WIndows 10. It always annoys me that you now must have the Windows ISO mounted before the system will perform the disk partitioning so make sure to have that ready as a ISO or a bootable USB drive.

 

[JohnRice]

Now I remember why I went with Parallels.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I used to use bootcamp but switched to Parallels as my Windows needs grew increasingly smaller. Now I only use three Windows programs which are not available on OS X.

 

[KeithAP]

The biggest problem with bootcamp is Apple. Frankly, I have never been impressed with the drivers they supplied. In regards to stability they are ok, but it seems like with performance (and to a lesser extent features), they are only about 75%-80% where they could be.


A few other things to keep in mind. Unless things are changed, if you get an iMac with a Fusion drive the bootcamp partition will be placed on the hard drive and not the SSD.


Also, both Parallels and VMWare's Fusion Virtual Machine software will allow you to virtualize the bootcamp partition. It will be possible for you to use bootcamp but also boot into OS X and still use the bootcamp installation for your VM. That might come in handy from time to time even if you don't use OS X on a regular basis.


Personally, I would just find a Windows box that meets my needs rather than running a Mac full time with Windows. Its doable, but there are some limitations.


-Keith

 

[DaveF]

Are there compact Windows workstations? My goal is not to get an LED-lit monstrosity. Doesn't have to be a Dell.

 

[BobO'Link]

Yes, there are. One approach would be to contact a few vendors with your specifications and requirements to see if they can build a system to suit your needs. Don't try to find a system on a vendor site but contact their sales department with your specs and let *them* do all the work and provide a quote. If they can't do that then you don't need their product(s). Dell makes a good system and would be one vendor I'd contact. Depending on the level of support you need you might also consider HP or Lenovo (although recently Lenovo's support has gone downhill a bit). The main thing is you want *business* level systems and *not* consumer. Those "LED-lit monstosity" systems are typically consumer level systems. We also purchase systems from a company called Bytespeed and have been pleased with their products and support. They are primarily geared towards larger corporate accounts but *do* work with small business.

 

[KeithAP]

I have read some good things about Puget Systems. You might check them out. I have never dealt with them myself though.


-Keith

 

[mattCR]

Are there compact Windows workstations? My goal is not to get an LED-lit monstrosity. Doesn't have to be a Dell.

Dave, based on a lot of your thoughts, have you looked at an Intel NUC type device? ( http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html )


Pros: they are teeny tiny, can mount to the back of most monitors, small.. there are several on the market for you to chose from beyond Intel; super low energy usage, reasonably fast (i3/i5 models), and dead quiet and they disappear.


Cons: depending on who is local to you, you mostly receive these "ready to go" but needing an OS install. Many places do the OS install for you; but I wish they had a bundled option just pre-installed easier. Others who make NUC type devices (like dell/hp/etc.) do of course come pre-done.


In regards to iMac: my wife has the iMac and it is a fantastic device. That said, I've never really found much to like about Bootcamp, which can be kind of frustrating to deal with at times. Still, I've had good success at home and corporate with Windows10 in a VM box on Apple and for a lot of base/required services that we've needed it has been a winner. Frankly, if you're going to use a mac it's a shame to not use OS/X as well as Windows 10. Both operations do certain things incredibly well that the other just doesn't right now. It's a great time to look at the unique options both OS's provide.

 

[DaveF]

Dave, based on a lot of your thoughts, have you looked at an Intel NUC type device? ( http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html )


Pros: they are teeny tiny, can mount to the back of most monitors, small.. there are several on the market for you to chose from beyond Intel; super low energy usage, reasonably fast (i3/i5 models), and dead quiet and they disappear.

Cons: depending on who is local to you, you mostly receive these "ready to go" but needing an OS install. Many places do the OS install for you; but I wish they had a bundled option just pre-installed easier. Others who make NUC type devices (like dell/hp/etc.) do of course come pre-done.

In regards to iMac: my wife has the iMac and it is a fantastic device. That said, I've never really found much to like about Bootcamp, which can be kind of frustrating to deal with at times. Still, I've had good success at home and corporate with Windows10 in a VM box on Apple and for a lot of base/required services that we've needed it has been a winner. Frankly, if you're going to use a mac it's a shame to not use OS/X as well as Windows 10. Both operations do certain things incredibly well that the other just doesn't right now. It's a great time to look at the unique options both OS's provide.

Thanks for the suggestion. But in this case, I need an i7 or Xenon engineering workstation. I previously bought from http://www.velocitymicro.com. Good prices and configurations, but ridonkulous case size. An upgraders dream. But after getting a pair in the office, I realized that I'd prefer compactness over upgradability. The Mac Pro is an ideal configuration...except I need Windows 7. This company looks interesting, found by a little googling.

http://www.boxxtech.com