Rogers & Hammerstein and other movie Aspect Ratios (1 Viewer)

[Dan M~]

I see that South Pacific, Oklahoma and others are being released/re-released next week. Are these movies in OAR?

Also How about Elvis:Love Me Tender and Lilies Of The Field?

Thanks for your help

 

[DeeF]

Where did you see this?

I've been waiting for these movies to be re-released. Their original DVDs are non-anamorphic, and since these movies were filmed using larger film, they really deserve a better picture on DVD.

Oklahoma!, South Pacific, and The Sound of Music were filmed in Todd-AO, and they are 2.20:1.

Carousel and The King and I were filmed in Cinemascope 55, and they are 2.55:1.

Of course, Oklahoma! was also filmed in regular 35mm Cinemascope, and that version isn't currently available, but it would have an OAR of about 2.55:1.

The Rodgers and Hammerstein version of State Fair from 1945 is in the Academy ratio, 1.37:1.

Two missing projects here: Flower Drum Song, which has never been released on DVD, and State Fair from 1961, which was a terrible movie but I'm interested anyway.

 

[Thomas T]

Love Me Tender and the two other Elvis films from Fox, Flaming Star and Wild In The Country are all Cinemascope films and will be presented in their original aspect ratio. These three films, along with Jailhouse Rock and Viva Las Vegas are among Presley's best movies so I'm looking forward to them. For those unfamiliar with these films, I strongly recommend Don Siegel's (Dirty Harry, Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers) Flaming Star, a western about racial tensions among Native Americans and white settlers. It's a drama and Elvis sings only 1 song in the movie if you don't include the main title. He's the son of a white settler (John McIntire) and Indian mother (Dolores Del Rio) and he and his white half brother (Steve Forrest) in love with the same girl, a yummy pre-I Dream Of Jeannie Barbara Eden. Good stuff.

 

[Peter Kline]

I dint know the Elvis films had music by R&H!

 

[DeeF]

Ok, yuk yuk, but did you know that Elvis was offered "West Side Story"?

 

[Dan M~]

Thanks all.

Thomas T.- Thanks for the Elvis info/OAR confirmation. I have three daughters that like his movies!

Peter Kline- Elvis did covers of everyones hit songs!!

DeeF- DeepDiscountDVD.com has the following for release this coming Tuesday (8/13):

South Pacific
Oklahoma
Carousel
State Fair (All for $14.64)

And a R&H 6-pack with the above and The King and I and Sound of Music. (For $65... I think)


They do not give an AR for these movies. Does anyone know if the DVD's are OAR?


Thanks again...

 

[DeeF]

Yes, they are all OAR.

I suspect that these movies are not being re-released, simply downgraded in price.

I'm still waiting for the anamorphic transfers they need.

 

[Patrick McCart]

It's a shame Fox didn't put out the money to have Oklahoma! re-transfered for DVD...

But the LD transfer used 65mm elements from the Todd-AO negative (which is cool). I guess WB's Around the World in Eighty Days will have to be the first and only Todd-AO film on DVD in 16x9. They didn't mind making a new transfer for 2001, even though the old transfer was also from 70mm. (the new transfer is also 65mm/70mm)

 

[DeeF]

The DVD of Oklahoma! uses the same source elements as the LD, the restored Todd-AO version of the film (restoration was done in 1983, part of the Goldwyn series). There is a Cinemascope version of the same film, and I would like to see a Special Edition DVD of this movie, which contains BOTH versions, and include a special feature where one could watch the musical numbers from each version simultaneously on screen. AMC used to show this for commercials, and it's tantalizing, to say the least! But only the musical numbers can be shown simultaneously from the two different versions, because they were lip-synched to the same pre-recorded tracks. The non-musical scenes in the movie will not work out, because they were filmed completely separately, and have different running times, camera angles, rhythms, etc.

I think I read here a post by Robert Harris that said, when Oklahoma! was transferred in 1999, there was no technology for transferring wide film format to 16:9 anamorphic DVD. Todd-AO was not an anamorphic technology (although later, movies like Ben-Hur used wide film AND anamorphosis to achieve that incredible 2.76:1 ratio). So, first the film has to be downprinted to 35mm, and then transferred digitally. It becomes very expensive, and this is why many of these features didn't get 16:9 transfers, at least originally.

Now, in 2002, they could do it. And of course, everybody will buy the film again.

 

[Patrick McCart]

although later, movies like Ben-Hur used wide film AND anamorphosis to achieve that incredible 2.76:1 ratio

The Ben-Hur DVD used a 35mm interpositive, which had an AR of 2.55:1. WHV then matted it to 2.76:1 to please the video magazines that say Ben-Hur MUST be 2.76:1.

In fact, Ben-Hur would have looked fine if they had just left it at 2.55:1. MGM correctly transferred It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World at 2.55:1 on their DVD from 35mm elements.

 

[DeeF]

Yeah, I totally agree. In fact, I kinda wish some of these very wide movies (like Ben-Hur and The King and I and Carousel) were reduced to 2.35:1. The picture would be bigger on my television.

Whoops! Blasphemy, I know. I don't mind the black areas at all, but I do like a better, more detailed picture. Oklahoma! at least has a fairly tall AR (2.20:1) but The King and I is just too wide for my television, and add to that a letterboxed transfer instead of anamorphic, it's just almost unbearable to watch.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Yeah, I totally agree. In fact, I kinda wish some of these very wide movies (like Ben-Hur and The King and I and Carousel) were reduced to 2.35:1. The picture would be bigger on my television.

It would also be even bigger at 1.33:1. :rolleyes
DJ

 

[DeeF]

Well, of course, I wouldn't go that far.

Really, what I want is a television that gets wider. So I can watch Academy movies, but then make the television wider and wider for VistaVision, Standard, Cinemascope, and finally watch Ben-Hur in all its widescreen glory, and not have to forsake any details.

 

[GregK]

The chopping of "Ben Hur" down to 2.76:1 was horrible, and as PatrickMcCart points out, it makes aspect ratio geeks think they're getting the original 2.76:1 ratio. ..What is sad is their plan worked. We see less complaints about this hack job vs if they had presented a truer 2.55:1 image.
But.. back to "Oklahoma!": It's worth pointing out that this is one the few Hollywood films to be shot at 30fps, vs the standard 24, and it shows. Check out any pan or dolly shot, like the opening rows of corn, and it looks more like 60 field shot video! I've A/B'd this DVD against the old Fox letterbox LD (which used the 35mm Scope 24fps version) and the fluid movement makes me wish the film industry could have seen the light back then... Oh well, who needs 30fps 70mm? :frowning:

 

[Randy A Salas]

I suspect that these movies are not being re-released, simply downgraded in price.

That's exactly what these "re-releases" are, a price drop. These are the same discs that have been available before, just cheaper. They are all OAR but non-anamorphic, as has been noted.

 

[Dan M~]

Has anyone heard if any of these disks are going to be redone? If it will be in a few years, I might as well pick them up now.
Thanks again for all the help.
You all are a great source of knowledge.

 

[TedD]

Beware, the Oklahoma! transfer really s__ks on a high end system. A wierd in and out of focus effect throughout the entire movie.

Yed

 

[Mike Frezon]

The DVD of Oklahoma! uses the same source elements as the LD, the restored Todd-AO version of the film (restoration was done in 1983, part of the Goldwyn series). There is a Cinemascope version of the same film, and I would like to see a Special Edition DVD of this movie, which contains BOTH versions, and include a special feature where one could watch the musical numbers from each version simultaneously on screen. AMC used to show this for commercials, and it's tantalizing, to say the least! But only the musical numbers can be shown simultaneously from the two different versions, because they were lip-synched to the same pre-recorded tracks. The non-musical scenes in the movie will not work out, because they were filmed completely separately, and have different running times, camera angles, rhythms, etc.

So, DeeF, if I understand you correctly, there are two completely different versions of Oklahoma -- although practically identical? That's wild -- and I never knew that! THe two different versions (Todd-AO and CinemaScope) contain completely different takes of the scenes? Amazing!
I would love to see that!

 

[Gary Miller]

I agree with Dee...Oklahoma has the potential for a fabulous double disc special edition. Perhaps Shirley Jones could add a commentary track. In spite of the shortcomings I believe this has been a successful catalog title for Fox. I'm not a big fan of musicals per se, but I would love to own anamorphic copies of Oklahoma and Guys and Dolls.

I believe Carousel was also slated for dual Todd A-O and Cinemascope performances. The idea was shelved, reputedly, when Frank Sinatra (originally cast as Billy Bigelow) told the studio to go pound salt. Evidently Sinatra felt he was being required to make two movies for the price of one.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Would love to have all these in nice new 16x9 transfer. Heck...I even want Sound of Music remastered as the grainy/edgy transfer out there now is an embarassment of this classic!

I've already suckered out and bought the 4x3 lbxed DVD versions of:

Oaklahoma
King and I
South Pacific

But I'd buy them instantly again. Just imagine how stunning these classics could look mastered properly. Maybe they'll eventually get new HD transfers for D-VHS that can be used for 16x9 DVD as well.

-dave