In my view, the word racist is probably not fair to use. I would say that these cartoons which were made in the 30's and 40's are not seen as racist even today, but they would not be considered politically correct given their use of stereotypes. Stereotypes, which were not uncommon in feature films during the times that the cartoons were produced. It wasn't just Disney that used the types of stereotypes that if used today would be considered mean spirited these were featured in several WB cartoons as well.
In the Complete Goofy, Walt Disney on the Front Lines, and the Mickey Mouse releases in the Walt Disney Treasures line of DVDs, these cartoons are featured with a quick explanation from Lenard Mallton giving some historical perspective on them.
Not that it will warrant a purchase regardless because as insignificant as it may seem, some of my favorite sequences from the edited episodes listed have been cut, but I'm interested to know what 3 bonus episodes will be included in the limited Best-Buy/Future Shop promotional offer?
Hey, I'm going to buy Ren & Stimpy anyway. I love the show. Yeah, it was wrong with what John K. did... yeah, yeah, yeah... they might rerelease it... they might not... but I've been waiting for this show for a while. They don't air this on Nickelodeon anymore. And is that bonus disc a hint that more seasons are planned for future dvd releases?
I certainly can understand this viewpoint, there are shows that I have that contain edits, (ALF) and as upset as I was with that, I couldn't bring myself to return it, for pretty much the reasons you listed...that and it would've been hard for me to do so anyway (another story).
However, in my case, I just can't bring myself to do it. I admit, I'm close to falling off of the wagon on this one and placing an order, but I just can't do it. It would be different if that one little word were not part of the packaging for the release. It would be different if the show's creator hadn't begged me to buy the set inspite of the fact that it is clearly marketed as something that it is not, regardless of who's fault it is. It would be different if I believed the reasons given for why these episodes have been edited, but I don't because I saw a lot of these unedited when they aired on Nickelodeon who is now being blamed for this. If they didn't claim to be something they are clearly not then I might be willing to pick the set up, it disappoints me that this has been done as I really wanted this set!
As difficult as it may be to fight the urge, for me, and I only speak for myself, I just can't give my money to Paramount and by proxy encourage this kind of false advertising. Ren and Stimpy is one of the more notorious shows, in that more than just people posting on internet forums know about some of what happened with that show in terms of cuts, and with the inclusion of one small word "Uncut" it is meant to make people believe they're getting something that they're really not.
I have a bigger problem with them proclaiming that it is uncut, than I do with them editing the episodes. There is a difference, and I hope something is done, or corrected about this as I am still willing to give the idea of Ren and Stimpy on DVD a chance, but not in this current form.
For those that have decided to buy the set anyway, I really do hope that you enjoy them, and I personally don't take issue with anyone that decides to buy it.
...and I would say that historical revisionists sometimes like to rationalize evidence that a beloved entity has a not so squeaky clean past. I think we're living in an era of extreme rationalization... at least here in the US. The adjectives "racist" and "contemporary (of it's time)" are not mutually exclusive. The material on MMBW1 is hardly the worst from the period, but recognize it for what it is. Many people today do, actually.
I am disappointed to hear of the Ren & Stimpy edits, but will buy the set anyway. I can understand not wanting it if the edits themselves make it undesireable, but not buying it out of principle is a sort of pointless martyrdom.
That depends on your "principles" I guess. Often studios rely on our impulse buying to get away with mistakes such as this, if we actually let them know why we are not buying this product then it isn't "pointless" IMO, it serves a purpose, I.E. we will not reward incompetence.
Point taken, Kevin. I think Paramount will hear plenty from fans about this mistake, and hopefully make amends (corrected disc exchange). But if you don't really care about the edits, as the poster had stated, why not buy it? I mean that and see nothing wrong in it. He knows what he's getting after all. There will be enough lost sales and returns from those like yourself who DO care. I'm not at all suggesting to keep quiet and content. Had my order not shipped a day or so ago I would have considered cancelling after reading this thread. As it is, I'll enjoy what's there and join whatever petition. Call me an optimist, but I think this is too glaring a mistake for them to ignore. It seems that it was due to sloppiness rather than deliberate bait and switch. In other words, they WANT us to have it unedited.
Yes but the "why not" is if you give them your money they haven't learned a damn thing, that's the point in not buying it. Now you say that if you have no problem with the edits then there is no reason not to buy it...and you would be correct but I think you are saying that you don't like the edits so why would you reward the people who screwed this up by giving them your money? Because you want Ren & Stimpy and you are tired of waiting? Ok, that's perfectly fine, but don't suggest that we who wish to send a message to Paramount are pointless martyrs for doing so based on principles and not just because we hate the edits...we do hate the edits but will also not buy a product when it says it is "Uncut" yet it is blatantly not. We aren't throwing ourselves onto the floor and tearing at our skin in some act of sensationalism, we really hate the fact that these cuts are so obvious yet even the creator himself didn't notice...but he want's us to shut up and buy it anyway?
Hell NO!
Nope.
Give us what you advertised and then you will get our money but false advertising and editing our favorite episodes will not wash.
Get it if you wish Willard*, that's your perfect right, but understand that this is pissing many of us off for reasons well beyond "posing".
*(you could still return it after it arrives if you try, I'd say you have a good case for falsely advertised product)
What's better? Writing a letter to Paramount or calling them up on their phoneline?
I think it would be more important to call Paramount or write them AND call John K himself.
To those who say, "I'm not going to buy this Ren & Stimpy DVD becuase it says it is uncut when it is blatantly cut."
Fine, but just realize that we are only a small percentage of a bunch of nationwide fans. The only way the rest of the fans are going to figure this out is if Entertainment Tonight or Extra or some other show business news corporation is going to let the cat out of the bag. And we know THERE'S a BIG chance THAT'S going to happen.
I just wanted to step in and by the voice of opposition. For the last two months with Alf, this and other things everyttime something is changed from the way they saw it on tv and not only they do they overrant but it's like someone threw an atomic bomb in their yard. From what I read it's only like 2 minutes that were cut and YES THAT SUCKS but it's not the end of the world, so voice your complaints and hope it goes well for round 2.
Your show is on DVD I think that alone is exciting enough and it seems people just like to complain, any tv show that is changed from they way it originally aired be it music or cuts or whatever shoulden't happen we all want our show to be the way we rememebred BUT I still think we should be hapy with what was given to us. It sucked that ALF was cut but you know what the last time I saw ALF it was in syndication anyway so probably what's on the DVD is what I saw anyway and i'm not going not buy ALF because there's 2 minutes missing from every episode I mean GET A LIFE there are more important things in the world. Keen Eddie had some of it's music replaced it didn't have any special features I had hoped for but it's still Keen Eddie with 6 episodes I hadn't seen before.
It sounded like John K did his best and really wanted to make a good product and said he even included things that weren't on tv. Maybe Paramount or Nickelodeon got rid of those uncut masters I mean no one thought of that or maybe honestly he thought he had done it. He may be the creator but he's not god mistakes can hapen. Instead people go all Post Apocalyptic and ranting my childhood was ruined you can't have everything you want that's not life there are shows i watched as a kid that i'll never see again that sucks but that's life.
There's a post I saw at DVDTALK that was pretty good it's by pOpus and the third last by the bottom of the page.
For a post you said was written at 5 AM. this is very well put.
Chris, I'm one that has championed the small percentage argument in the past, and I still think it is important to remember that is true. However, if done the right way, a small percentage of an overall potential customer base can have an impact. Which is why to me, it is not simply enough to not buy the set, but it is important in the most polite manner possible to let paramount know why it is that I'm not buying the set.
I prefer the letter writing idea to the phone call, because even if you were to call a studio's customer service line, it doesn't necessarily mean that the person on the other end of the phone actually works for the studio itself.
Then I'll just have to say 'neener neener' to you all doing without, while I enjoy the 27 uncut shorts with extras. I would be hesitant in screaming "fraud" as there is no evidence of a deliberate misleading. I am forgiving them somewhat for their sloppiness, it's true. But I am also rewarding them for the glass well more than half full.
I just read that pOpus post referred to and I agree.
One thing's for sure, it won't be Entertainment Tonight. That's a Paramount show. :wink:
As for the set, I was highly anticipating its release but I'll pass. I'll hold out in hopes that a truly complete release will come along eventually, and if not, I'll have Wacky Races, Top Cat, The Flintstones and Looney Tunes on the way to satisfy my toon needs.