Realistic Expectations (1 Viewer)

[Jimmyr]

I read this forum often and rarely post as I never have inside information. I do, though, find out many things here. I've had some extra time lately and have been thinking about the future in light of the many discussions on here.

In light of current trends what can really be expected on DVD for some of my favorites (not what I want, but what is likely) :

1. James Stewart

Warners-- Nothing left for a real release except Rose Marie as Warners will likely release Eddy/Macdonald as they have invested in restoration. 13 or so on Archives.

Fox--5 titles but probably none well-known enough for release (I'd love Seventh Heaven) unless they get an archives.

Paramount--Strategic Air Command. Little chance.

Sony--We will surely get Two Rode Together (Likely) A few other titles are highly unlikely.


2. Clark Gable

Warners has almost all he has left. Perhaps Test Pilot, but all rest Archives.

3. Errol Flynn

He sells for Warners and one set is planned as reported here. Beyond that perhaps The Sisters in a Bette Davis set. The rest on archives. I think a less than 50% chance for a set beyond the one on 2010. The Perfect Specimen will never be released as Warners will not invest in fixing the rights issues and I hear Murder At Monte Carlo is a lost film. Still, with the set and archives plenty is on the way.

Others for him are his later stuff ( 1 independent, one Fox, 3 UA (MGM), and one that was released by Republic on VHS) and will probably never see the light of day.

4. Spencer Tracy

Warners-- There was once talk of a set for him but that idea is apparently dead. Without Hepburn he does not sell enough. (As good as he is, who knows why). There is Sea of Grass but you would assume if they thought it would sell it would have been in his sets with Hepburn--so I assume archives. I do believe Northwest Passage will make it. Archives gets many titles.

Fox-- I always thought Stanley and Livingston would make it, but 50-50 at best. All those older titles will never be seen. I would like to have seen them.

5. Henry Fonda

Warners-- Only I Dream Too Much and Slim left (besides That Certain Woman which has a small chance). Both Archives. (only 1960 and back interests me)

Fox-- 8 films but none especially famous. I'd love to see, but very unlikely.

Others--2 Sony, 1 UA (MGM), and 3 Universal all from 1941 and back--highly unlikely.

6. Gary Cooper

Warners- They have been good to us with Mr. Cooper. There is the imfamous waiting on The Hanging Tree. It will either be archives or nothing likely. Warners should ask for a deal with Mr. Cooper's family where restoration costs are recouped first and profits split after that. Warners would still have the risk and the family would have a shot at some profits which they do not now. Only the silent Lilac Time and Good Sam remains otherwise and that is archives.

Universal--They have released some and perhaps might do more. I've heard the rumour of a set but the title Bluebeard's Wife that was said to be part of it is in the coming Colbert set. I don't know what that means. I can't help but believe that The Story of Dr. Wassell and Northwest Mounted Police will be released. But Universal also has at least 14 talking pictures from the early 30s we fans would love to have ( 2 are titles with Cary Grant too--Alice in Woderland and The Devil and the Deep) and I list as a shot in the dark. A chance, but not a good one.

Others--From 1950 and on we have 2 UA (MGM), 1 Fox, and 1 that was released by Republic on VHS-- With Cooper you never know, but unlikey.

7. Cary Grant

Warners--Only 3 left (None But The Lonely Heart, In Name Only, and Suzy). Suzy will be on the Harlow set if it comes, the other 2 are archives.

Universal--Like Cooper he has many from early 30s (11 I think). Again a chance, but a weak one.

Sony- When You're In Love--Unlikely unless in some comedy set.

8. Humphrey Bogart

Warners--He sells too so there is a possibility. Perhaps a set with Battle Circus, Chain Lightning, The Two Mrs. Carrolls, and The Wagons Roll At Night. Many other titles for archives. If there is another Gangsters or themed set one of his early ones might be chosen.

Fox--Left Hand of God and Deadline USA have a chance if they release a few more, but 4 from the early 30s have no chance.

Sony--Knock On Any Door maybe, Love Affair from 1932 no chance.
Universal-- Bad Sister with Bette Davis but little known.

9. Tyrone Power

Warner-- The Rising of the Moon (directed by John Ford) so a chance, but probably archives.

Fox--They have had great success with him but their plans appear up in the air. They have 7 films left and could do one more set.

Universal--The Mississippi Gambler--unlikely.
Sony--Abandon Ship--unlikely

10. John Wayne (some seem to resent him on here perhaps because his filmography is treated better than others by studioes)

Warners--Nothing left as John Wayne sells! 1 with a cameo (I Married a Woman) and 2 with bit parts (College Coach and Central Airport) --archives.

Circus World-Who knows

Republic( Whoever owns it now)-- 13 or so movies from earlier in his career. If someone ever gets the rights, they will likely release them.

Universal-- 7 titles from the 30s that fans would love to see, but if Universal had interest you would think they would have released by now--unlikely.

11. Others

Randolph Scott ( I love but not as popular except in other westerns) Warners has 3 more (I hope to see Shootout At Medicine Bend and Sugarfoot soon). All archives. They have a few other titles for archives as well.

All his other films, sadly, have little chance.

Joel McCrea--some westerns released and more to come on archives. Some on Universal , 1 Fox, and a few UA need to be licensed out to have a chance.

A few older films might have a small chance.

12. Director John Ford

Warners-- They actually have 5 but all lesser known--probably archives.

Sony- Gideon of Scotland Yard--unlikely.

Republic?--The SunShines Bright--unlikely

Fox--Even the big set is out of print. Any title not making that has no chance.

Universal--Air Mail --unlikely.

Sony--The Whole Towns Talking--unlikely unless in a comedy set.

I think I am not overly pessamistic but very realistic. Despite the sadness over some of this, it's hard to complain. The studioes have to make a profit and that is hard these days.
Many of you know so much more about this than I do, please improve my predictions wherever you can.

 

[mdnitoil]

Hard to argue with most of what you wrote there. The only thing that I think I'm really going to miss is one last Tyrone Power set from Fox. They held back some good ones and I really hate to see Fox get out of the game before giving it one last shot.

 

[JoHud]

I'm surprised there are not more sets for Gable and Bogart, two of the most bankable classic stars. I would think that name-value alone would sell those sets, especially if they are not films commonly seen. I was surprised to see the original "Possessed" in the archives as it is a pretty notorious Gable/Crawford Pairing.

Also, I would assume Joan Crawford and James Cagney would have more representation than they do.

I also agree with a second Tyrone Powers set.

 

[Corey]

I'd at least expect Warner to release the stars that sell: Davis, Crawford, Cagney, Bogie, Gable, and Judy Garland.

 

[Miguel M Santos]

Originally Posted by Corey

I'd at least expect Warner to release the stars that sell: Davis, Crawford, Cagney, Bogie, Gable, and Judy Garland.

I'm not sure of how much Gable sells and I'd include Flynn in that list. But I imagine that more Davis and Bogart are sure things.

And I hope they continue with the Forbidden Hollywood sets.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Miguel M Santos




I'm not sure of how much Gable sells and I'd include Flynn in that list. But I imagine that more Davis and Bogart are sure things.

And I hope they continue with the Forbidden Hollywood sets.

Not a lot of Gable titles left, Saratoga, The Hucksters, Red Dust and a few others. I would expect and hope Saratoga and Red Dust to be in a Harlow set since none of her titles have hit WA. (HOPE HOPE). Davis is the same way, her and Gable's early films seem to be making it to the WA, though there are still some good titles out there. I think that Warner's will make a set out of the rest of Garland, but I thought they would do the same for Jolson and we know what happened to those films. I could also do with another musical collection or two and more Esther Williams. Some more Westerns and Errol Flynn would would appreciated. And anything from WWII.

 

[Miguel M Santos]

Originally Posted by ahollis

Davis is the same way, her and Gable's early films seem to be making it to the WA, though there are still some good titles out there.

There are still plenty of good Bette Davis titles for at least one box, two boxes if they want to: DANGEROUS, THAT CERTAIN WOMAN, THE SISTERS, JUAREZ, THE CORN IS GREEN, A STOLEN LIFE, BEYOND THE FOREST, THE CATERED AFFAIR.

And if you decide to get some second tier fillers, you can have JIMMY THE GENT, THE CABIN IN THE COTTON, FOG OVER FRISCO, EX-LADY, JUNE BRIDE, or who knows, rescue IT'S LOVE I'M AFTER or some of the others from the archive...

 

[kingfish]

I am hoping for Tobruk with Rock Hudson from Universal which released Battle Hymn with Hudson.

A few other films I am looking for are:

Stick- Burt Reynolds
Armored Command- Tina Louise.
China Gate-Angie Dickenson.

 

[jdee28]

For a lot of these stars, the 1930s was the time when they were young and coming into their own; James Cagney, Bette Davis. Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, Katharine Hepburn, Gary Cooper, Barbara Stanwyck, Edward G. Robinson, Loretta Young, Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart. For some, the 1930s was their peak period. Yet, when they do the box sets, films from the 30s, especially the early 30s, are not included. From the Warner perspective, it looks like all those films are doomed to the archive and non-restoration, and that's a shame. You lose a sense of film history and the star's development if you ignore those 30s films. You also miss some fun entertainment, as a lot are pretty good.

 

[Corey]

There are quite a few Gable titles left:

-Test Pilot
-Adventure
-Comrade X
-The Hucksters
-Polly of the Circus
-They Met In Bombay
-The White Sister
-After Office Hours
-Night Flight
-Sporting Blood

 

[Professor Echo]

The entire REPUBLIC library is currently owned by Paramount, so the chances of seeing those titles released is getting slimmer and slimmer, given Paramount's seeming disinterest in vintage films. Some of the more well known titles, at least by Republic's standards, did come out on Artisan DVD, with middling quality, but since Paramount's acquisition of the collection, I don't think any more have been released.

The Encore Westerns Channel has managed to show many Republic westerns, but often they are in sorry shape with no restoration at all. Still though, at least it's some exposure for a studio that is relatively forgotten today. In the 70's and 80's you could occasionally see a Republic noir or musical on a rinky dink UHF channel, but those days are long gone.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Point-Blank

The entire REPUBLIC library is currently owned by Paramount, so the chances of seeing those titles released is getting slimmer and slimmer, given Paramount's seeming disinterest in vintage films. Some of the more well known titles, at least by Republic's standards, did come out on Artisan DVD, with middling quality, but since Paramount's acquisition of the collection, I don't think any more have been released.

The Encore Westerns Channel has managed to show many Republic westerns, but often they are in sorry shape with no restoration at all. Still though, at least it's some exposure for a studio that is relatively forgotten today. In the 70's and 80's you could occasionally see a Republic noir or musical on a rinky dink UHF channel, but those days are long gone.

Lionsgate has control of the REPUBLIC library at the present under contract from Paramount, but the chances are slimmer with them than if Paramount controlled them. Lionsgate releases about six vintage REPUBLIC titles a year, mostly westerns that are in need of some work.

 

[ReggieW]

Given Mr. Feltenstein's gloomy comments regarding the status of classic films, I really don't expect to see that Harlow set in 2011 - which is claimed by WHV to still be two years away.

I'll believe it when I see it.

We were first told that it would be out at the end of 2006 in the 2005 chat and the films never surfaced. As many here have noted, the boom period is now over for classic/catalog film on dvd. Warner has really angered me by not AT LEAST releasing the pre-code films she made. They've released films from other stars which are less popular than the Harlow pre-codes, so I really don't know how WHV dropped the ball here.

I guess we can hope for a Warner archive release of these films at some point.

 

[Danny Burk]

Since work on the Harlow films has presumably been underway for several years now, it seems that real pressed DVDs should come eventually if expensive restoration work has been completed, or at least well underway. Unless these plans were aborted...

I don't believe anyone has mentioned that we were told several times that major releases were coming this year for the MGM 85th anniversary celebration. So far, not a single title has been released specifically for such a promotion. Hopefully, the MGM archive titles aren't what was actually meant by this...if so, there haven't been any indications on archive titles as to their being part of such an event.

 

[kingfish]

I was also wondering about Alan Ladd. There are a number of titles still left to release:

All the young men.
Paratrooper.
The deep six.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

I'll be shocked if Warners shells out anything int he way of an MGM anniversary promotion...

you'd think the very least they could do is release the *ALREADY PRESSED* documentary "When The Lion Roared" as a single standalone release since it was only ever paired with the outdated Legends Collection as a bonus disc. Fat chance though...

Originally Posted by Danny Burk

Since work on the Harlow films has presumably been underway for several years now, it seems that real pressed DVDs should come eventually if expensive restoration work has been completed, or at least well underway. Unless these plans were aborted...

I don't believe anyone has mentioned that we were told several times that major releases were coming this year for the MGM 85th anniversary celebration. So far, not a single title has been released specifically for such a promotion. Hopefully, the MGM archive titles aren't what was actually meant by this...if so, there haven't been any indications on archive titles as to their being part of such an event.

 

[Alan Tully]

But They did release "MGM: When The Lion Roars" as a two disc release at the start of the year, I have it, along with "You Must Remember This: The Warner Bros. Story" now. Are we talking about the same thing? Oh, & "You Must Remember This" states on the box that it's enhanced for widescreen TV's, as far as I can see it isn't, I haven't looked at the second disc yet.

Originally Posted by MarcoBiscotti


I'll be shocked if Warners shells out anything int he way of an MGM anniversary promotion...

you'd think the very least they could do is release the *ALREADY PRESSED* documentary "When The Lion Roared" as a single standalone release since it was only ever paired with the outdated Legends Collection as a bonus disc. Fat chance though...

 

[Mark_TS]

That puts us in a fix.

Due to a LOT of reading/investigating/anecdotal evidence, ill play Casandra/devils advocate at the same time

The economy, according to most long term financial/stock/bond/CRE* experts-not corporate mainstream media cheerleaders/pumpers-
-will be in a bad way for AT LEAST a couple of years and could will get worse; we do not live in a vacuum...the studios know this;
That, and the fact of BRs-installed base being in a 'too small too justify release' niche-and the still small but percieved vastly greater potential of VOD/DL-ing model means we wont likely see many more classics or even catalog on BR/DVD --whether they will justify release on VOD remains to be seen; -
But they should- and this got me thinking:
here is why the studios will or are giving a pavlovian drool at hearing the term "VOD/DL":

With VOD/DL-ing there will be no upfront capital or near impossible-to-get credit required to spend on pressing discs-(new runs of new titles/new runs of old titles), for packaging and for transport-or the big hassle of defective returns-they simply make a master disc-send-or download copies to the various POPs and bingo! Watch the REAL net profits roll in -most everyone has a computer-those whose setup wont allow for this will go to a POP-whether kiosk,retail outlet, or video store and have the film put on a blank disc to take home
The only cost will be for the in-house mastering/cleanup of the titles elements (or fileset!) which will then broadcast out to POPs via T1 or fibre optic (add to that the small fee/% sales to to POP/internet portals)
Professional restorers, such as RAH will still have a job-a lot of smaller-or a few bigger films will always need fixing before they can be digitized and sold to the consumer
For cost saving reasons the studios are soon going to want to put their eggs all in one basket-and then push that basket HARD and with the demand for all physical optical media dropping-(both because of the economy, and/or their being seen as becoming obsolete) and the fact that they see VOD/DL-ing as the future model- good luck on classic titles;

So you will rent/DL on a mere whim-a movie-for $1.99/a time expiring file--or to own $4.99/- the loss leader stage will be brief-as the distribution infrastructure is in already in place, Studio> Portal> home computer; Studio>POP> Home Computer NOW:add no hassle-no car trip-being out of stock etc; Guess what- two middlemen are now gone-no more transport or intermediate stock distributors-the studios can keep much more of the profit -by *becoming* the creator of content AND the distributor even the exclusive seller -which wont be hard or cost much-and yet keep prices reasonable to the POP and consumer; They will just clean out some unused janitors closet-install servers and buy up blocks of cheap fibre optic bandwidth, cheap because the line out of the studio will be based on economies of scale, and again, with no middlemen;
Heck, as i hinted-if they were really smart-they would become the exclusive outlets of their own product, bypassing Amazon, iTunes, and the cable companies etc; MS has an anemic also-ran ZOON(sic)iPod/iTunes store type thing-that has never caught on- basically irrelevant; a welcome end to "squirting" LOL;

Or the studios might form/fund a central co-op HQ digital download consortium -this would allow for smaller/foreign film companies to be represented with more exposure at less cost;
You would go to a local POP node if your computer will not allow this, and buy a copy put onto a blank disc for a buck more
Word will spread thanks to google and the internet that if you want a FOX film-go to www.foxhomevideo/downloads.com-( or the consortium) people will soon catch on and up

Think it was hard to watch your LD, then DVD collection become obsolete?
Lets be ready with our BR collections-which will not get nearly so large, fortunately for us.
yet sad-still, it would take years for BR to ever catch up with the hundreds of thousands of DVD titles on catalog-if they ever even bother to catch up-or get anywere close to at all; The fact that there are still what-?-10 times the number of DVD players out there to feed compared to BR which just simply has not had the time or real acute interest to catch on bigtime -youd think they would go where the money is at today, and milk it.
Since BR is still at a loss leader/subsidized stage.......well.....add 2+2- it is making little or no profit as of now or the near future-which dont look too good;
But show me a rational studio CEO-or most any of them-(this is why we americans are now the proud owners of GM-and the billions of the big banks BAD DEBT-they will keep only their profits, thank you)
This because of - thanks to the studios-a fragmented market-none of them large enough in their minds (except DVD-even in its 'decline'-which they are idiotically writing off) to justify spending the money to release on-
which means many of these will be on the likely NEVER to be released list

"Cant happen" you say-"the studios will not walk away from their investment in BR..." huh.....
Well, they seem to have no problem walking away from the ADDED profits of feeding existing DVD players by selling several hundred thousand more copies of movies/remasters now exclusive only to BR-I know WARNER has done it for several titles, SONY.....they will have little trouble when they see the profits of VOD/DL;
were not talking pay per view FROM your cable company-who can be bypassed when VOD/DL takes off in the above scenario
When they begin to experience/extrapolate losses with the new economic realities/data/and declining disc sales-that they will never win selling physical media-they will dump commitment to BR-as they did with DVD-and claim a huge tax credit on capital investment losses-and like the growing number of underwater mortgage holders who owe more than their house is worth-will walk quickly and quietly away from BR;

And I wonder how many of these studios have investments in paper 'assets' and funds that no longer exist-that and declining ticket/disc sales could bring one or two down in the interim


*Commercial Real Estate- a said to be 'bubble about to burst':

www.globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/08/structurally-high-unemployment-for.html

I know this is not a financial forum-but would like to add some relevant remnant of evidence that this is not
simply my opinion-this is one of many in agreement-and yes there are some sites and the general media
who see peaches n' cream coming any day now...

 

[Paul Penna]

What's to stop the streaming/download distribution model from evolving into something like the one now employed by cable & satellite TV providers? That is, moving from single-title-on-demand to a bundled service, in which you're forced to pay a continuing subscription fee just for access, regardless of how much or even whether you use it? You know, the situation faced by people who only want TCM, but have to pay for a package that contains 150 other channels they're not interested in? If cable & satellite providers think they can make more money this way, why wouldn't the studios? Particularly with niche-market content which, even given the savings from non-physical product distribution, would still have considerable costs in terms of data storage and only a relatively small market share to support it.

Or even worse, from adopting such annoying practices as bugs, scrolling messages and other image-cluttering garbage? After all, the vast majority of TV audiences are already inured to such things, and a video stream to them would be, for all practical purposes, like just another TV channel.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

My mistake, it's completely off-topic but I was thinking about the 1991 documentary on Warner Bros: "Here's Looking At You, Warner Bros" that was originally included as a snapcase release packaged with the outdated Warner Legends Collection that included Robin Hood, Treasure, Yankee Doodle Dandy, etc. It's still a lame "anniversary promotion" when they're not even releasing any MGM films at all.

Back to the off-topic rambling, it would still be nice to reissue the Warner Bros. docu on DVD or repackage it in a keepcase with an upcoming set... if there is any upcoming sets of anything coming out anymore on pressed disc. [/url]

But They did release "MGM: When The Lion Roars" as a two disc release at the start of the year, I have it, along with "You Must Remember This: The Warner Bros. Story" now. Are we talking about the same thing? Oh, & "You Must Remember This" states on the box that it's enhanced for widescreen TV's, as far as I can see it isn't, I haven't looked at the second disc yet.