RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Robin9]

I've seen it many, Many, MANY times and I DEFINITELY want it on Blu ray. I know many others who feel the same way.

Your opinion is "your" opinion and "mine" is mine, of course. Nigel Patrick is just fine, but it's Liz and Monty and Eva Marie who make the picture the beautiful thing it is...along with Johnny Green's sublime original score.

Just to clarify my position and my attitude:

I quite enjoy Raintree County but I don't think it is an especially good movie. I'm making do with a very sub-standard Italian DVD but I too would love a high quality Blu-ray disc.

I fully accept - and indeed expect - that some people think Raintree County is very special and want this film more than any other . . . . but that is true of every film ever made including utter garbage and proves absolutely nothing. The big question is: how many people would spend real, hard-earned money on a BRD? A few hundred or several hundred thousand?

As far as Nigel Patrick goes: well, of course he had a supporting role and the main burden as always was carried by the stars; but if we are talking about the quality of the performance . . . . .

 

[Robert Crawford]

Believe that The Wild Bunch is being worked on...

George Feltenstein has confirmed that The Wild Bunch will be released with a new transfer next year.

 

[john a hunter]

I have never seen Raintree in 35mm,only 16mm Scope and Laser and, while enjoying the spectacle, it seemed to me, dramatically somewhat dead, to say the least.

A few weeks ago, it was shown on a pay TV channel here and was reviewed in the Sydney Morning Herald. He was a relatively new reviewer but reading his reviews, he seemed much better informed that I can say for most reviewers. Indeed, his tastes seemed to mirror mine so he is obviously perfect !!!.

These are some of his comments about Raintree:

"Clift... Saint... Taylor...All were born to their roles.Saint with her quiet beauty and goodness, Taylor sympathetically capturing Susanna's inner demons and Clift at the height of his beauty,even though a car crash midway through filming destroyed the left side of his face and helped bring on his early demise in so many sad ways.

This is a film on a vast scale, with sumptuous production design and costumes, and excellent 65mm photography. It is one of Hollywood's great period melodramas and also the finest work of Edward Dmytryk, a director of Ukrainian heritage who was jailed for refusing to co-operate with the House Committee on Un-American Activities. When he recanted and named names, he was widely vilified, and his cinematic achievements diminished. But it is unwise to condemn filmakers for moral decisions made under intolerable distress;it is the quality of what's up on the screen that matters.

Raintree is an achingly beautiful film of emormous power and resonance. The final scenes in the swamp may move you beyond tears."

After reading that, I can't wait to see it on a restored BD .

Critics opinions are just that but somehow I feel a reconsideration of my previous views is more than called for.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Thanks for posting that review, John.

Here's a lovely publicity still of Elizabeth Taylor as Susanna:

 

[OliverK]

I have never seen Raintree in 35mm,only 16mm Scope and Laser and, while enjoying the spectacle, it seemed to me, dramatically somewhat dead, to say the least. A few weeks ago, it was shown on a pay TV channel here and was reviewed in the Sydney Morning Herald. He was a relatively new reviewer but reading his reviews, he seemed much better informed that I can say for most reviewers. Indeed, his tastes seemed to mirror mine so he is obviously perfect !!!. These are some of his comments about Raintree: "Clift... Saint... Taylor...All were born to their roles.Saint with her quiet beauty and goodness, Taylor sympathetically capturing Susanna's inner demons and Clift at the height of his beauty,even though a car crash midway through filming destroyed the left side of his face and helped bring on his early demise in so many sad ways. This is a film on a vast scale, with sumptuous production design and costumes, and excellent 65mm photography. It is one of Hollywood's great period melodramas and also the finest work of Edward Dmytryk, a director of Ukrainian heritage who was jailed for refusing to co-operate with the House Committee on Un-American Activities. When he recanted and named names, he was widely vilified, and his cinematic achievements diminished. But it is unwise to condemn filmakers for moral decisions made under intolerable distress;it is the quality of what's up on the screen that matters. Raintree is an achingly beautiful film of emormous power and resonance. The final scenes in the swamp may move you beyond tears." After reading that, I can't wait to see it on a restored BD . Critics opinions are just that but somehow I feel a reconsideration of my previous views is more than called for.

John, that is a very nice review and captures some of my feelings after having watched that 35mm scope print of Raintree County. As I said there is a visual and aural sumptuousness that is not transported as well in lesser media so an at least decent Blu-ray would be most welcome.May I ask if that was an SD or HD screening? From what I hear Raintree County was once shown on one of the US HD channels so it might be that a very old (and very bad) HD master already exists of the cut version, not that anybody would want to have that on Blu-ray!

 

[ahollis]

I have only experienced RAINTREE COUNTY on the widescreen laserdisc which I still treasure. I would love to have see it in a theatre but alas when it was released I was to young to see it. Growing up in Mississippi I can recall the excitement of Taylor and Clift arriving I'm Natchez to film at the nearby Ruins of Windsor. It's not a great film but a very interesting film. The stars and the MGM publicity machine did all they could to make sure this was a hit, which it did not meets its expectations. Taylor's fall into maddens is a piece of marvelous acting.

 

[mikeyhitchfan]

I saw the "HD" version on TCM last year and it was pretty bad. Blurry, faded and dated looking, but a step up from the horrid DVD's out there.

 

[ahollis]

I saw the "HD" version on TCM last year and it was pretty bad. Blurry, faded and dated looking, but a step up from the horrid DVD's out there.

I don't think there is a legitimate DVD release. Most likely any DVD is a bootleg of from the laserdisc. And should be avoid by all means.

 

[Robert Harris]

Why do you think WB isn't open to this and how much do you estimate they could save them in the case of Raintree County?

Just catching up with this thread. As to Image Trends (and I have nothing against the facility), they aren't needed by WB.

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Well George Feltenstein's Ask Me Anything discussion panel left much to be desired on the issue of Raintree County, and - in fact - just about every other title fans were inquiring about. According to Feltenstein he is aware of the "interest" in Raintree but the title is still "under consideration". That's Warner code for "don't look for this one any time soon."

Raintree requires extensive restoration work to get it to where it ought to be. But here's my issue. While Warner has been dragging their heels on releasing more new classics to Blu- instead looking to reissue repackaged stuff and a handful of pending classics for the upcoming Christmas rush, studios like Universal and, most notably 2oth Century-Fox have been aggressively pursuing a marketing policy that has seen some distinctly solid efforts made to resurrect their catalogue in hi-def.

Warner seems to have dropped out of this race if you ask me. They are content to focus on the MOD archive for oldies and stick with the HD transfers they already have on file for reissues like The Exorcist and The Wizard of Oz. Okay, we'll be seeing James Dean, House of Wax, Bishop's Wife and The Best Years of Our Lives hit stores in Nov. - all new to Blu. But let's be honest. We've seen virtually nothing - or next to nothing - in classics between February and September while Fox in particular has been giving us 2 to 4 vintage titles per month thus far either via its own distribution or Twilight Time.

Knock, knock, Warners. Time to heigh-ho it back to the drawing board. Oh, and a repackaged JFK with no upgrade to its HD transfer but a bunch of reproduced vintage postcards and booklet IS NOT the way to appeal to our collector's hearts!!!

You're mixing metaphors. Two different entities with WB.

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Dear OliverK:

Just a point I'd like to clear up because it wasn't clear to me in your previous comment. You mentioned that Fox was 'sitting on some previous work done' which seems to fly in the face of the business model expounded upon by others in this post - namely that studios are creatures of habit who'll make money any way they can - hence, 'sitting on' viable product when it could be making them money doesn't seem to make much sense. Just an inquiry, not a slight.

But you also mentioned something about Warner's "more aggressive output showing that not all releases looked that good" and I need clarification on a couple of points: first - are we talking about WB's DVD output from 1997-2005 or are we talking about current output? In both cases WB has had their misfires. I suspect that many were willing to forgive the flaws in DVD mastering because WB was at leasting pumping out the goods with regularity and with a solid commitment to OAR and at least some minor clean up being performed.

The Warner Archive however has become a repository or dumping ground for movie classics - whatever their merit artistic or otherwise, and in whatever condition they currently exist in. Some have obviously fared better than others. Some too have received minimal clean up. None have been elevated to a level befitting even basic authored DVD and none are capable to complete with hi-def Bluray.

Your comment about Fox and WB has me genuinely perplexed. Either you're saying that Fox took the time to do the work but chose to delay its output on hi-def, whereas WB didn't make the commitment, or you're saying that WB's prior commitment was solid but the studio is choosing by far and large to abstain from reissuing to Blu-ray due to necessary improvements they seem unwilling or incapable of making at this time. Which is it? We can't have it both ways? I'd just like to know where you stand.

Are you unaware of the magnitude of re-mastering occurring at WB, specifically for the Archive label?

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

I'm a "do it once and do it right" kind'a guy. If there weren't so many mistakes and/or oversights to fix just think how much further ahead WB would be now in getting more stellar work on new and as yet unreleased titles.

All it takes is one exec with a keen eye, a love of film, a well researched continuity script and dye transfer samples at his finger tips, and some time management to sit down once the master has been created, but before all the copies have been stamped and shrunk-wrapped and ready to ship to say "Hey, wait a minute, guys. Frames 137 to 230 seem out of whack. Send this back to the telecine dude and then the colorist and then let me have another look at it. Better still. Let me sit in on the tweaking. Twenty minutes or two hours. Once I leave the room they know what it should look like and can do the work on their own."

Really, it is that simple. Time and money - it all boils down to just these two things. So please, take the time and the money and do it once but get it right. The list of misfires is growing. Two that make my blood boil are West Side Story and My Fair Lady. I won't even begin to share with you the growing roster of titles that have merely left me shaking my head.

Unfortunately, not quite that simple.

RAH

 

[mikeyhitchfan]

I don't think there is a legitimate DVD release. Most likely any DVD is a bootleg of from the laserdisc. And should be avoid by all means.

Actually, there is an official release in Spain. Non-anamorphic and maybe even a single layered DVD. It beats the bootlegs, but that's about it.

http://www.amazon.es/Arbol-Vida-DVD-Montgomery-Clift/dp/B003H0K1AE/ref=sr_1_48?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1377115086&sr=1-48&keywords=Montgomery+Clift

 

[OliverK]

Actually, there is an official release in Spain. Non-anamorphic and maybe even a single layered DVD. It beats the bootlegs, but that's about it. http://www.amazon.es/Arbol-Vida-DVD-Montgomery-Clift/dp/B003H0K1AE/ref=sr_1_48?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1377115086&sr=1-48&keywords=Montgomery+Clift

That's a surprise! Probably from the same master as the widescreen LD.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Actually, there is an official release in Spain. Non-anamorphic and maybe even a single layered DVD. It beats the bootlegs, but that's about it.

http://www.amazon.es/Arbol-Vida-DVD-Montgomery-Clift/dp/B003H0K1AE/ref=sr_1_48?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1377115086&sr=1-48&keywords=Montgomery+Clift

It's a shame that they didn't release the widescreen roadshow cut. At least then we'd have something as good as what TCM airs...

 

[john a hunter]

John, that is a very nice review and captures some of my feelings after having watched that 35mm scope print of Raintree County. As I said there is a visual and aural sumptuousness that is not transported as well in lesser media so an at least decent Blu-ray would be most welcome.May I ask if that was an SD or HD screening? From what I hear Raintree County was once shown on one of the US HD channels so it might be that a very old (and very bad) HD master already exists of the cut version, not that anybody would want to have that on Blu-ray!

I didn't see it Oliver, but it was onTCM here so it would be the same print as when it was shown in the U.S on that channel.
As I said, I've seen the film since it was issued on Laser, but the CD's of the score are often in my player. One of the great scores!!

 

[OliverK]

I didn't see it Oliver, but it was onTCM here so it would be the same print as when it was shown in the U.S on that channel.As I said, I've seen the film since it was issued on Laser, but the CD's of the score are often in my player. One of the great scores!!

Probably not much different from that Spanish DVD. The score and cinematography certainly are strong points, maybe I will get that soundtrack.

 

[ahollis]

Probably not much different from that Spanish DVD. The score and cinematography certainly are strong points, maybe I will get that soundtrack.

The soundtrack is wonderful. I actually read the book with the soundtrack playing in the background. It allowed me to get through that tough first third of the novel.

 

[Nick*Z]

Dear Mr Harris:

Am aware that Warner Archive has been aggressive in their remastering for MOD. But that doesn't necessarily equate to masters that will stand up on an HD platform. A lot of good work has gone into the archive. But the Blu-ray platform at WB does not seem to be favoring classics at this time. There's also some curiosity about the titles WB chooses to advertise as 'remastered' editions on the archive. Stolen Life - as example is a pluperfect example of remastering but not advertised as such, while The Student Prince is plagued by extreme color fading and - I suspect (though have no way of knowing for sure other than by what I see) - the beginnings of vinegar syndrome. It's main titles are also riddled in dirt and scratches. Still, it's been stamped with a 'remastered edition' label.

Warner has done good work, but I see a lot of repeats happening now - reissues of titles already available, merely repackaged, and the money being spent merely to have consumers double and in some cases triple dip for titles that ought to have come out right the first time. We don't have to go in the whole Kenneth Branagh Hamlet debacle, do we? And releasing The Wizard of Oz in 3D seems, at least to me, to fly in the face of the studios one time commitment to releasing movies without amplifications or embellishments - something Ned Price was very adamant about back in the day. Yes, certain titles have been given 'stereo' mixes when original mono stems were available to do a true stereo remix. I don't see that as 'tampering' especially when the original mono mixes are remastered and included along with the 'spruced up' audio. And while we're on the subject of Oz in 3D, the latest poll conducted on HTF seems to suggest that Warner has shot themselves in the foot on this one with 50% saying they'll abstain altogether from this money grab while only 6% who own the 70th plan a repurchase. Not good odds if you ask me.

But WB seems to be placing emphasis on bare bones archive remasters - instead of ground up restorations. Releasing a lot of titles to the archive is great. But I own 52 of them, of which only about a third I would suggest look better than average - in other words, in a quality I would recommend for others to buy. The early titles in the archive fared less well than what came later but even some of the later stuff looks fairly awful. The Enchanted Cottage being a prime example.

Chroma bleeding on Honky Tonk and Idiot's Delight absolutely ruins one's viewing experience. I just don't have the same excitement over what's happening at WB today as I did when they were the purveyors of legitimately authored box sets on DVD and were at least promising some more good things along the way. What I see now in HD is a lot of re-issues. Another Exorcist, another JFK, another Oz, another Wild Bunch, another Deliverance and so on. I'm not adverse to reissues but not when they seem to be the only things coming down the pipeline.

Finally, having followed the latest "Ask Me Anything" I was frankly appalled by some of the questions Mr. Feltenstein was asked - including the 'please get me a job' inquiries that the 'ask me anything' intro probably set himself up for. But more disconcerting was the chronic 'we know there is interest' and even more chronic 'not at this time' responses. I mean, perusing that discussion again this morning before writing this reply to you I have to say collectors and participants to that discussion really did not learn anything new and no new announcements were forthcoming either. I really did not see the point of the Q&A for either side. Mr. F didn't get all that much insight into what the market will bear and fans didn't have any real cause to get excited about what's in store in the next 6 months.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. Always interested in hearing yours.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

I'm trying to be optimistic. Maybe all of the reissues (Oz, The Exorcist, JFK, etc.) will help fund titles like Raintree County.