Quantum Leap Season Two - Music Replaced! (1 Viewer)

[JasonLa]

This is the kind of generic bull crap all companies send in reply to alterations. I have gotten responces from other companies following the same form letter.

"There are numerous reasons for music replacement which are complex and confidential". If they cared about the consumer this wouldn't be given as an answer. This is just a side step of the issue. It would be like asking the president what his plans are for terrorism and he says its complex and confidential and not even giving a basic answer to the question.

As for the disclaimer. They need to state out right in a noticeable way that a set contains music alterations from the origional. If they put a generic may contain and it is on all their products it just causes confusion.

The bonus features error apology is ok but it doesn't rectify the problem since I think even before the set released it was said the set would contain bonus features. So with such a statement made this is false advertisement and last I checked was still illegal.

If season 3 contains music replacements I'm going to be selling my sets. Maybe we should all file compaints with the BBB on Universal Home Video. Or dare I say something worse? Can we form a class actions suit? Any lawyers or law students out there know if this is an option in the event further seasons are altered like season 2? The reason I ask this is I think Universal needs to take a financial loss for this and not just get a bunch of complaints. I think if everyone that has purchased season 2 and doesn't like the changes should participate and the compensation of the suit be the cost of the set(s) to each class member. 10,000 people at $50 would be $500,000 plus court costs. I think 10,000 is probably a conservative amount of people and it probably would be 100,000s or even more.

 

[Paul Sandhu]

I don't think you have grounds for the lawsuit. Its not like they advertised having original music. And I doubt you could get 10,000 people unless you have a full page ad in some major newspaper.

 

[Thomas Newton]

By advertising a show for sale, without stating that it has altered music, they imply original music.

If you bought a car, and you found that the steering wheel came off in your hands, and that the vendors had no intent of fixing it, would you say "Oh well, that's OK, they didn't advertise that the steering wheel would stay put"?

 

[Paul Sandhu]

Good point Thomas.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

I'd at this comment, except it's so true it's really rather sad.

 

[James Reader]

I'm sorry, but what are you objecting to? The reasons for music replacement most likely are complex - rights aren't even neccesarily held by one single entitiy. As for confidential - of course they are are! You don't go badmouthing the other party when negotiations fall down or a concensus cannot be reached. You don't even hint at the position of the other party. I'm sure publishing what the music companies are asking would make it much more likely that deals could be reached in the future. There's no sense in burning any bridges.

 

[ZackR]

If Season 3 does not have the original music, then I think I am out. There is plenty of good TV product out there. I have very good quality tapes that I can transfer myself. Actually, that is as good as I have ever seen it look anyway, so I can live with it. I will no longer pay for a product that is altered unless there is a very good reason given for it. Something like, we could NOT secure the rights to XYZ no matter how hard we tried. I would pay a LOT of money for official DVDs with intact music...at least as much as I did for Trek and X-Files. If we continue to demand lower and lower prices and then accept edited products, then we are getting what we ask for. If we think we should get TV seasons for $30 and we moan when we don't, then it is our own fault to an extent. To me, $100 for a season of a show I love is a bargain. Do I WANT to pay that much? No. Will I? You bet. I have done it before and would do it again. I sincerely hope that S3 is truly unedited and that Season 2 was just a bump in the road...though somehow I doubt it. Once a studio realizes they can release an edited product and it will still sell, why should they bother to go the extra mile and clear the necessary music? If money is the issue (as far as music rights are concerned), then please, clear the music and CHARGE ME MORE!! I would rather pay more for a complete product. If I find out Season 3 has the original music, I will buy on release day, regardless of price. If not, I will save my money for something else on my wishlist. Some people might think my attitude on this would hurt a show's chances on DVD if everyone did this. We would doom a series on DVD they say. I don't care. It is the same as OAR to me. I do not buy movies that are not OAR, and I will no longer buy TV shows that are edited. I could stomach (begrudgingly) and isolated occurrence here or there, but this is happening way too frequently. TV shows are flooding the DVD market left and right. We are demanding more and more shows. Well, I for one will now demand quality along with quantity. I don't care about extras (though they are nice), but I do care about the show itself. Give me the original show with original music and I will be happy. Anything else is just a bonus as far as I am concerned.

 

[Chris_Wa]

As soon as S3 is set to be released, I also heavily doubt there will be anything original in it.

Until their sales drop to zero, this is what will now be "routine". I for one, am completely through with anything Universal calls a product.

 

[RichardLoomis]

Yeah, I'm ALMOST a lawyer (doing my final exams this week and shouldn't really be on the internet ). One of the things I have concentrated on is intellectual property and copyright. Any sensible lawyer would probably spend more time thinking about how to resolve this complex music rights issue than fighting a losing class action battle against the studios. There may be some legitimate argument that they were engaging in false and misleading conduct in selling the sets as "original" (if that is how they were advertised)

Do you really think the studios are sitting around saying: "You know what, Bob? I'm sick and tired of us making money off these sets..."

"Yeah, I know, Stan. If only there was a way to piss off the fans!"

"Totally. Wait! Hang on! I have it! What did George Lucas do?

"CHANGE STUFF!!! Yay! Let's go buy cupcakes..."

The truth of the matter is that these negotiations are complex. And confidential. No class action suit is going to change that. Strangely enough, the studios are interested in turning a profit. Granted, it is annoying that we have these sub-par soundtracks, but do you really think that the point of it is to simply annoy fans?

Look, I agree that the message needs to be loud and clear, but frankly, I think this "auto-sue" mechanism that seems to be build into the US justice system is absurd.

 

[Jeff Jacobson]

It sure seems like that sometimes. Rhino added extra sound effects to their Transformers and G.I. Joe sets for some reason.

 

[JasonLa]

Its interesting really because I'm not one of those people that always thinks sueing all the time. This is probably the 1st time ever I had thought of it. It seems like Universal is trying to rip off its consumers with this product. Since they offer no explanation except the generic "complex and confidential" line.

Is there anyone out there that can get some details that will give us reasons why the changes took place? I don't expect universal to violate the music rights holders but it would be nice to know some of the reasoning and decisions that took place on universals end.

 

[Linda Thompson]

I don't think they're worried about burning any bridges, because I don't think that they even tried crossing those bridges in the first place, nor do they plan to try in the future. I hope to be proven wrong in time, and to have cause to est my words when future seasons hit the shelves, but I'm not holding my breath. I believe they've decided that altering is easier/cheaper/quicker than negotiating, and that they genuinely don't understand why any of us would consider such a situation unacceptable.

Do they honestly expect us to believe that negotiations were attempted for S2, but (conveniently enough) the only SUCCESSFUL negotiations were for those pieces of music to which direct references were made in the script? Um, yeah...right. (P. T. Barnum would LOVE that one.)

 

[RichardLoomis]

Don't take my arguments here as a lack of emotion. I am just as angry as the rest of you about the cuts and alterations to these shows. However, I find myself siding with the studios more and more these days. The studios aren't lying when they say the negotiations are complicated and confidential. That is the nature of business. On some level, I'm glad the studios aren't simply bending over and taking the high prices that the record labels are reportedly charging for the rights. Someone has to take a stand at one point. We aren't happy about the changes - do you think Universal is happy with paying whatever the labels want, just to keep a niche market happy?

I take your point, Linda, but the studios can't really say "We tried to negotiate, but we failed", when those issues are probably still being hashed out. Any public announcement one way or the other could ruin a potential deal either way.
NOTHING is certain at this point - that is because it is "complex and confidential". When it is all settled out, I'm sure Universal will make a proper announcement. But for now, none of us - LEAST of all the studios - are in a position to say what the state of the game is.

 

[James Reader]

Well, of course Universal placed emphasis on negotiating the rights to the tracks namechecked in the actual script. It stands to reason these instances of music are the most important "contextually". And Universal seems to have managed to come to an agreement most of the time. The thing is... nobody here knows how much these agreements added to the production price of the set.

It seems to me that there are slightly double standards on this whole issue in this debate.

All of the other studios have replaced music on some of their TV to DVD releases. Fox replaced loads of music on their Roswell sets (again apart from any namechecked songs). And surprise, Roswell had a $50 retail price rather than the initial $150 retail they wanted for the music complete "X-Files". They also flat-out refuse to release Ally McBeal in the United States or WKRP in Cincinnati becuase of music rights issues. Ditto, Malcom in the Middle, which appears to be in release limbo due to (I believe) music rights issues.

I would argue Quantum Leap has just as much "important" and "popular" music in it as WKRP has. So if the mighty Fox who seem to be the TV-On-DVD darlings can't make a profit from WKRP, why should Universal be expected to sell Quantum Leap for $60 and make a profit.

BBC America has cut lines and even sequences from their releases (such as the whole Chicago sequence from Ab Fab Series 5) and got no complaints.

Buena Vista has replaced music on their Once and Again and Felicity releases.

Columbia refused to pay for the Married with Children theme for their third season release, which only goes to show how complex these negotiations can be. Why would they be able to get the rights for the first two seasons, but have to pay more for the third? It shows that nothing can be taken for granted. In addition, Columbia has replaced music on Dawsons Creek and Tour of Duty.

I believe even Shout! Factory (who did so well with Freaks and Geeks) has had to edit their (higher than average retail priced) SCTV releases due to music rights. And they tried their very best to licence all the music.

Does anyone here actually appreciate how hard it can be to get the rights to music?

It seems to me, the first seasons of Universal's releases had all (or most) of the music intact because they had previous VHS releases, and most likely previous music clearence contracts. It wasn't a conspiracy to "pull you in". It wasn't because they tried harder then dropped their efforts to get the second seasons out quicker. It was just that the rights had already been granted.

The issue is just as much the fault of the general public and the music holders as it is of the studios. Yet, I only see anger directed at Universal. It's insane for the general public to expect to get anything between 9-17 hours of content for $50 or under. But they do. It's unfair to accept that music licences have a right to profit from their intelectual holdings, but not to allow studios to profit from theirs.

I'm no fan of Universal as a company, they've made some massive mistakes in the past with their release choices and (especially in the UK) pricing (£25 for Bridget Jones 2??? That's close to $45). But why has Universal suddenly become the Anti-Christ of TV on DVD? And Universal has offered lots of mail in solutions to previous issues in the past. (Such as Jurassic Park DTS and Back to the Future misframing)

(Incidently, talking about false advertising and cuts, what is happening with Warners Tom and Jerry set? Surely a mail-in replacement would be ready by now if the wrong masters were selected by "accident" and the correct ones were already prepeared for the initial release?)

I know it's hard for some people to accept, but we, the internet community, only make up a fraction of the buying public. We're fanatics. We would be prepeared to pay $70-$100 for a unaltered Quantum Leap set. It doesn't mean the vast majority of the public would. It doesn't mean a $70-$100 set would sell enough units to make a reasonable profit.

As for people making derogatory comments about "speed of release being unimportant" how many queries do we get on this forum about the release of the next season of a show, when the previous season has just been released? How many people complained about the slow release schedule of The Simpsons? Again, although release schedules may not mean much to us, in the wider world, a reasonable release turnaround is required to keep the series in the public eye.

The main issue seems to be, to me at least, that Uninversal put no effort into finding appropriate musical replacements, unlike the other studios I have mentioned. They're made the musical replacements stand out too much. Hopefully, they will have learnt from all of this and

(a) will be willing to offer a little extra money for music
or
(b) will make a more considered choice in their replacements.

 

[Greg_S_H]

That's the way I've always seen it, Linda. If Uni tried, there would be more music on there. I just don't believe ALL the individual rights holders decided to hold out for a ton of cash. Certainly, an extensive list of music equals a large payout even at what Universal might consider a reasonable sum, but it wasn't too big a hurdle for various first season releases from Universal--including Miami Vice, with it's jaw-droppingly long list of music--and it didn't even inflate the price beyond what Uni charged across the board for those early sets. I think they just decided to cut out an expense, hoping nobody would notice or care. That is why I remain hopeful for future seasons: if they didn't absolutely have to lose the music, and if they lost a noticeable amount of sales because of the decision, they might realize that emulating the first release is the better option. Given their form response, however, I can understand why you might not share my optimism.

As for lawsuits, I don't want to get too into that discussion, but it's not something I would personally join in on. I figure they have a right to handle their properties with as much or as little care as they choose, and it's my right to purchase or not purchase based on their level of caring.

 

[James Reader]

The first season of Miami Vice has been released on VHS, mostly with music intact. (although there were a few, even when the retail was $20 for two episodes!) So very few negotiations would be needed for the DVD release. Ditto the first 12 episodes of Northern Exposure.

Quantum Leap seems to have a checkered VHS release, but I believe the first season was on VHS, along with seemingly random episodes from the other seasons.

Perhaps this explains the music replacement patterns on their existing sets.

 

[Cees Alons]

Of course, makes sense. Titles actually mentioned in the script were under different contract terms from the very start on.


Cees

 

[Lee Jamilkowski]

Damn straight. Until I hear from reviewers that season three is complete and unedited, I won't be touching it with a ten-foot pole. It's Universal's loss.

 

[JasonLa]

I definately agree that if the replacements were done better I probably would not be as upset about it. As mentioned about Married with Children, the theme music was done with an alternate instamental version of the song (correct me if I'm wrong as I don't have the sets). I assume that the change wasn't horrid and closely matched the origional music. Were there alot of gripes about this one as there is with QL?

 

[TravisR]

With Married... With Children, it was only the theme song that was changed to a similarly sounding new theme. So it wasn't taken as badly as some people are taking the QL music change.