Presumed Innocent/Frantic Blu-Ray - Double Feature Review (1 Viewer)

[James Luckard]

I just got a shipping notice, it went out this morning. I should have it tomorrow.

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I still don't understand where that unapproved soundtrack originated from. Just strange, and how/why did it get archived at WB as the original English audio for them to pull when they made the BD?

Do you mean unclear about where the track came from? Or how it got to the States?

It's been confirmed by a couple of French reviews that it's the original French theatrical audio track. It probably made its way to the States along with the other various dubs, and got confused by someone when they were adding audio tracks for the BR.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Never saw that tidbit of info.

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
Never saw that tidbit of info.

Ah, yep. When the film was released in French theaters, it apparently played largely in English, with subtitles.

However Polanski had all the minor French characters redubbed in their native language and also had Ford and Buckley revoice certain lines of dialogue in French. For the life of me I can't imagine why that second part was done, but people on various French sites seem to remember the film playing that way in 1988.

 

[James Luckard]

I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(excuse the celebrating)

I hold, in my hand, my copy of the reissued FRANTIC Blu-Ray. I just tested it and all the dialogue meant to be in English is BACK IN ENGLISH.

This Blu-Ray contains the ORIGINAL ENGLISH LANGUAGE AUDIO TRACK.

It has the same insert as the old one, still dated 2010.

However there is a sticker outside the plastic, covering the barcode on the back, with a new one.

THIS IS WHAT TO LOOK FOR to distinguish it from the old defective one:

The old number under the barcode is:
8 83929 10637 0

The NEW number under the NEW barcode on the sticker is:
8 83929 20395 6

Unfortunately there is no mark on the disc either, to note it is revised/corrected. It is identical to the old one.

The sticker is the ONLY MARK THAT THIS DISC IS CORRECTED and is what everyone will need to use as a guide to buying.

I would assume, for the moment, that brick and mortar stores will continue to carry the old version, so places like Amazon are probably the best way to get this new one.

 

[James Luckard]

In answer to how I got it, I called Amazon's 800# - (866) 216-1072

My first trick there is that I start by asking the operator where they are located. If they are not in the US, I politely say "I'm sorry, I need to call back" and keep doing so until I get an operator in the States. In my experience only operators in the States have the power to do things out of the ordinary and make special exceptions to rules.

In this case, I explained that the new version, released on May 31, was clearly the same film, and that I was responsible for getting a defective audio track replaced.

I was lucky 1000x over in getting an operator who actually understood what I was talking about and believed me.

It's usually extremely difficult to:

A) return an item over a year after buying it
and
B) exchange an item for one with a different ISBN number

Nevertheless, this super-kind operator worked out the return of my old disc, and the shipping of a copy of the new disc - at the same price I paid for the old one, with free shipping.

I would not expect to have this same result again, I was exceedingly lucky, as I seem to have been at every step of this adventure.

I'll be contacting Warner Home Video, to see if they're going to do an exchange. For the bulk of people out there, that's probably a MUCH, MUCH easier option.

 

[James Luckard]

I've brought everything this far, now I need to enlist everyone's help - to help yourselves.

I already have the corrected disc, so I'm satisfied personally.

However Amazon is still selling the old disc, and has the new disc on a separate page. So I'm not entirely happy. The quest has not reached its end.

I need EVERYONE to call Amazon 800 and say the old disc is defective, and that Amazon should start a product investigation.

Amazon should stop selling the old version and only sell the new one.

Old version:
http://www.amazon.com/Presumed-Innocent-Frantic-Thriller-Feature/dp/B0031RAP68/ref=pd_sim_d_1

New version:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051SFSBM/ref=cm_cr_thx_view

I just spoke to an Amazon operator who said the more people who call, the more seriously this will be taken, and the bigger the impact when Amazon contacts Warners.

Call:
(866) 216-1072

And I suggest following my rule - ask the operator immediately on answering if they're in the US, and if they're not, politely say "I'm sorry, I need to call back" and do so until you get someone here in the States. They seem to have a great deal more leeway to help in unusual situations like this.

I'm depending on you all to call. Like I say, my part of this problem is solved, so you'll all be helping yourselves by calling.

Thanks!!!!

James

 

[39steps]

Congratulations James. This was fantastic work and perseverance by you. I was all set over a year ago to purchase this Blu-ray when it was released. But my local Best Buy didn't carry it initially. (or I was too late to pick up the only copy?). While waiting for it to appear in store I went searching for any reviews and came across your posting regarding the audio error. Since then I've seen it many times on store shelves but trusted your judgement about it's quality. And now having followed this thread for over a year I've just made the purchase on Amazon. Obviously this would never have happened without your determination to see a cinematic wrong righted.
Hey! It even moved me to finally join the site to offer my thanks!
Michael

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by 39steps
Congratulations James. This was fantastic work and perseverance by you. I was all set over a year ago to purchase this Blu-ray when it was released. But my local Best Buy didn't carry it initially. (or I was too late to pick up the only copy?). While waiting for it to appear in store I went searching for any reviews and came across your posting regarding the audio error. Since then I've seen it many times on store shelves but trusted your judgement about it's quality. And now having followed this thread for over a year I've just made the purchase on Amazon. Obviously this would never have happened without your determination to see a cinematic wrong righted.
Hey! It even moved me to finally join the site to offer my thanks!
Michael

Thanks!! It means a great deal to me to hear this. I was always fighting because I simply wanted to see the movie myself (it had never been released in widescreen without PAL-speedup before), but I always hoped I could help out other movie fans too. It's great to know I was right, and that what i did will have an impact on others

 

[James Luckard]

I watched the film all the way through last night.

"Now we are so happy, we do the dance of joy!" - Balki Bartokomous
The audio is, indeed, completely correct. Anyone who wants can buy the disc without risk. However anyone who needs to exchange a defective disc needs to call up Amazon and add their name to the list of complaints.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

Thanks, James! Called Amazon and received a credit in order to pay for the new disc AND a return label for a full refund on the defective disc!

Originally Posted by James Luckard
I've brought everything this far, now I need to enlist everyone's help - to help yourselves.

I already have the corrected disc, so I'm satisfied personally.

However Amazon is still selling the old disc, and has the new disc on a separate page. So I'm not entirely happy. The quest has not reached its end.

I need EVERYONE to call Amazon 800 and say the old disc is defective, and that Amazon should start a product investigation.

Amazon should stop selling the old version and only sell the new one.

Old version:
http://www.amazon.com/Presumed-Innocent-Frantic-Thriller-Feature/dp/B0031RAP68/ref=pd_sim_d_1

New version:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051SFSBM/ref=cm_cr_thx_view

I just spoke to an Amazon operator who said the more people who call, the more seriously this will be taken, and the bigger the impact when Amazon contacts Warners.

Call:
(866) 216-1072

And I suggest following my rule - ask the operator immediately on answering if they're in the US, and if they're not, politely say "I'm sorry, I need to call back" and do so until you get someone here in the States. They seem to have a great deal more leeway to help in unusual situations like this.

I'm depending on you all to call. Like I say, my part of this problem is solved, so you'll all be helping yourselves by calling.

Thanks!!!!

James

 

[Harry-N]

James, you say that there is no physical difference on the actual disc. Did you check the numbering on the playing side, around the hub? My original disc that I got in January has:

BVDL-073560A1 2 and a very small IFPI L321

Does this match what's on the replacement disc?

Harry

 

[James Luckard]

James, you say that there is no physical difference on the actual disc. Did you check the numbering on the playing side, around the hub? My original disc that I got in January has:

BVDL-073560A1 2 and a very small IFPI L321

Does this match what's on the replacement disc?

Harry

I just checked, the only difference in the first number is that the last digit in the new one is a 5, not a 2.
As for the second, it seems useless, as while the number on the new version is different, the number on my copy of the old one is also different, must be a batch number or something.
At least there is a slight physical difference in the discs, I was afraid there would be absolutely no way to tell once the wrapper was thrown away, except by playing the disc. Of course the numbers are minuscule, and difficult to see, but they're there.

 

[Harry-N]

Thanks for that information. You're right, it could just be a different pressing/batch number and have little to do with the version of the film on the disc. I was hoping for something more concrete.
I'm not totally happy with the solution I got from Amazon, but at least they did *something.* Contacting them via email (finding their well-buried "Contact Us" link), I was told that they would not offer an exchange, since the titles/ASIN numbers were different, but that they would issue a credit to my account.
I paid $9.49 for the first issue Blu-Ray, and that amount has been credited. They then suggested that I simply make a new purchase of the new release - but the price they're offering it for is $22.49, which doesn't seem quite a fair difference. Other than fixing the mastering to what it *should* be, this disc is not really anything different, and the higher price seems like a bit of gouging.
So, since the refund has already been made, and they're not requesting the old disc be returned, I guess I'll just have to sit on this situation for awhile, waiting for a better opportunity to re-purchase the corrected title at a better price down the road.
I watched the film as is with this French theatrical audio once and didn't actually notice the difference until it was pointed out. It's probably from years of watching the film with the correct language that I already knew the plot and was concentrating more on image framing and the clarity of the picture. So it's not impossible for me to enjoy this original Blu-Ray until a better version comes along at a better price.
This situation seems akin to one that developed in The Beatles CD releases a few years ago with The Capitol Albums Volume 2 set. For those not familiar, I'll briefly describe it. Capitol mistakenly issued the set with two albums having the wrong mono mix on the CDs. After catching the error, they issued corrected discs to those who requested them, but never pulled the wrong discs from circulation. The result is that the uncorrected sets are still out there and their replacement program is long gone, so it's buyer beware for that set. They're rationale must be similar to Warner Bros. in this case, that an unsuspecting public won't care so much, and the few that do will have been placated by a newer release.
It's also not unlike the the situation with THE FUGITIVE's Season Two Volume One release, where CBS/Paramount replaced the discs for those who asked, but left the errant sets out in the marketplace.
Harry

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

Did you ever speak to anyone by phone, Harry? I called during the day yesterday and had a very friendly, receptive operator the first time out (she was from the U.S. and I didn't have to ask her). She immediately credited me the $22.49, which I applied to the new FRANTIC disc. She then emailed me a return label for the old FRANTIC disc and told me I'd get a full credit for that when it was returned.

Thanks for that information. You're right, it could just be a different pressing/batch number and have little to do with the version of the film on the disc. I was hoping for something more concrete.
I'm not totally happy with the solution I got from Amazon, but at least they did *something.* Contacting them via email (finding their well-buried "Contact Us" link), I was told that they would not offer an exchange, since the titles/ASIN numbers were different, but that they would issue a credit to my account.
I paid $9.49 for the first issue Blu-Ray, and that amount has been credited. They then suggested that I simply make a new purchase of the new release - but the price they're offering it for is $22.49, which doesn't seem quite a fair difference. Other than fixing the mastering to what it *should* be, this disc is not really anything different, and the higher price seems like a bit of gouging.
So, since the refund has already been made, and they're not requesting the old disc be returned, I guess I'll just have to sit on this situation for awhile, waiting for a better opportunity to re-purchase the corrected title at a better price down the road.
I watched the film as is with this French theatrical audio once and didn't actually notice the difference until it was pointed out. It's probably from years of watching the film with the correct language that I already knew the plot and was concentrating more on image framing and the clarity of the picture. So it's not impossible for me to enjoy this original Blu-Ray until a better version comes along at a better price.
This situation seems akin to one that developed in The Beatles CD releases a few years ago with The Capitol Albums Volume 2 set. For those not familiar, I'll briefly describe it. Capitol mistakenly issued the set with two albums having the wrong mono mix on the CDs. After catching the error, they issued corrected discs to those who requested them, but never pulled the wrong discs from circulation. The result is that the uncorrected sets are still out there and their replacement program is long gone, so it's buyer beware for that set. They're rationale must be similar to Warner Bros. in this case, that an unsuspecting public won't care so much, and the few that do will have been placated by a newer release.
It's also not unlike the the situation with THE FUGITIVE's Season Two Volume One release, where CBS/Paramount replaced the discs for those who asked, but left the errant sets out in the marketplace.
Harry

 

[Harry-N]

No Jon, I went the email route and as I said, am somewhat satisfied. They've credited my account with the idea that I can re-purchase the corrected edition. My only concern is that the corrected edition is so much more expensive than what I paid for the first disc, so I'll be patient and wait for a better price.
The positive effect of this action will be that I will ultimately have two discs - one that I can file under "P" for PRESUMED INNOCENT and the corrected on, whenever I get it, to file under "F" for FRANTIC.
Harry

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

No Jon, I went the email route and as I said, am somewhat satisfied. They've credited my account with the idea that I can re-purchase the corrected edition. My only concern is that the corrected edition is so much more expensive than what I paid for the first disc, so I'll be patient and wait for a better price.
The positive effect of this action will be that I will ultimately have two discs - one that I can file under "P" for PRESUMED INNOCENT and the corrected on, whenever I get it, to file under "F" for FRANTIC.
Harry

But, they only credited you for the price of the original disc ($10), correct? Since the same company is giving others a much more customer-friendly deal (refund for original disc and credit for the new one), I wouldn't be satisfied, but to each his own, I suppose.

 

[James Luckard]

No Jon, I went the email route and as I said, am somewhat satisfied. They've credited my account with the idea that I can re-purchase the corrected edition. My only concern is that the corrected edition is so much more expensive than what I paid for the first disc, so I'll be patient and wait for a better price.
The positive effect of this action will be that I will ultimately have two discs - one that I can file under "P" for PRESUMED INNOCENT and the corrected on, whenever I get it, to file under "F" for FRANTIC.
Harry

You might want to check out Best Buy. I saw about half a dozen copies there the weekend before last on an endcap, and someone else on the blu-ray.com forum also saw copies at his local BB, priced at $14.99. He checked and they were the corrected pressing.

 

[Scott Shanks]

What if you did not order the disc from Amazon? Does Warner have an exchange program?
Thanks!!

 

[Harry-N]

You might want to check out Best Buy. I saw about half a dozen copies there the weekend before last on an endcap, and someone else on the blu-ray.com forum also saw copies at his local BB, priced at $14.99. He checked and they were the corrected pressing.

Thanks James, but at my local Best Buy I'd consider myself lucky if they had a whatever this week's big release is. They have almost zero stock in the media department. There's another Best Buy some distance from my home that has a bit better stock. If I get a chance, I'll check there

But, they only credited you for the price of the original disc ($10), correct? Since the same company is giving others a much more customer-friendly deal (refund for original disc and credit for the new one), I wouldn't be satisfied, but to each his own, I suppose.

If they paid me what I paid for the disc, then I got it free, right? Are you suggesting that others are getting a better deal than that?
Harry