Presumed Innocent/Frantic Blu-Ray - Double Feature Review (1 Viewer)

[Robin9]

This thread is fascinating! Many thanks to everyone.

It seems obvious that the U. K. DVD provides the best "rendition" of the movie. What is the picture quality like! Is it way, way below the Blu-ray?

 

[Douglas R]

Originally Posted by James Luckard .....
But watch the "French" track on the UK DVD more closely, it also has Harrison Ford dubbed into French. That, and that alone is my biggest issue here. (Although I also object in general to not including the audio track with which the film was originally released in theaters.) It is absolutely vital to the plot that Ford does not speak a word of French. He and other characters comment on it over and over throughout the film.

He starts off by asking the bellboy who wakes him after his wife disappears, "What time is it", only now in French. Okay, maybe I buy someone who doesn't speak French could know that question. But watch the bellboy's lips, he answers in English, "Ten past ten," only he's dubbed into French too.

Soon after, however, it becomes unbearable. Watch, in particular, the scene where Ford interrogates the little man from the bar in the alley and finds his wife's bracelet. It switches into and out of French, sometimes within the same sentence.

I'll give one particularly glaring example. In the original version Ford's line is "What exactly did you see?" However, in the "French" version, he asks "Quoi, exactly, vous voir ici?" I'm sorry, there is no way on earth a non-French speaker can formulate that sentence. It undermines the entire film, and it's not an isolated incident.

James - I checked the UK DVD French langauge track and you are right about those examples where Harrison Ford speaks French. The exchanges in French are so brief that I never spotted them before. As you say, it does seem odd.

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Robin9
This thread is fascinating! Many thanks to everyone.

It seems obvious that the U. K. DVD provides the best "rendition" of the movie. What is the picture quality like! Is it way, way below the Blu-ray?

Unfortunately, yes. The picture quality is unwatchable on an HDTV. I popped it in to check, hadn't watched in ages since the days when I owned an old normal TV. It looks like a washed out quicktime movie on an HDTV. And of course it has PAL speedup as well.

However the UK DVD, for the time being, is the only way to see the theatrical version of the film in widescreen. And the American pan and scan DVD is even worse. It is easily the worst looking DVD I have ever seen in my life, much, much worse than even the old 1988 VHS I had.

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Douglas R

James - I checked the UK DVD French langauge track and you are right about those examples where Harrison Ford speaks French. The exchanges in French are so brief that I never spotted them before. As you say, it does seem odd.

I know, what bewilders me is why this "French" track was ever created, especially since it has the voices of the actual actors. I can understand a complete dub of the film into French with local actors, like the Spanish and Italian dubs, but this track is a mystery. However, since even the French actors are all clearly moving their lips to the English dialogue throughout, I have to think the legitimate English track is the one that Polanski intended.

 

[John Hodson]

I don't suppose there's been any news on this? Have Warner held their hands up?

 

[James Luckard]

I talked to the same person at Warner a few times after my promising first conversation.

Unfortunately I was taken less and less seriously each time, finally being told that nobody else had complained and that I would have to send in my Blu-Ray for them to check it.

I again explained that my own disc is not defective, it is the master from which ALL the Blu-Rays were made that needs to be redone, but I don't think they care at all.

I finally gave up, I'm sure I'd send it in and then either never see it again, or get it back in 6 months, along with a form letter.

My last hope is a UK release, where they'll probably have to include numerous audio options, and hopefully correct this error.

I don't think there will be a physical media format after Blu-Ray, so I really want to have a decent-looking widescreen version of FRANTIC without PAL-speedup before everything moves to streaming.

Originally Posted by John Hodson
I don't suppose there's been any news on this? Have Warner held their hands up?

 

[Mark-P]

Other than this thread, there has not been one PEEP out of anyone on the internet about this issue. Obviously no-one cares.

 

[James Luckard]

I know. Although it starred the biggest movie star in the world and was directed by one of the all-time greats, the film is shockingly unknown and unloved.

It's one of my absolute favorites, but I've resigned myself to the fact that Warners has no interest in correcting a problem that only one seemingly crazy person cares about, and I can't really blame them. I wish there had been an internet outcry as there was over the similar mistake on the Superman: The Movie DVD, but I'm realistic.

Originally Posted by Mark-P
Other than this thread, there has not been one PEEP out of anyone on the internet about this issue. Obviously no-one cares.

 

[David Coleman]

I have this disc. I've not watched FRANTIC but have watched PRESUMED INNOCENT a few times.

Personally i'm quite pleased with the look of PRESUMED INNOCENT. It was never a pretty looking film. Detail and color are pretty decent for a film of this vintage.

I actually enjoyed the audio. Have been waiting for so long to use my Dolby Prologic II,.On 2.0 DVD, the sound was so compressed, there was hardly any detail. With a DTSMA 2.0 track, it harkened back to those days of Dolby Surround on LD and VHS. I found the Prologic to have quite an amount of presence and the steering brought about clear dialog for the center channel.

 

[John Hodson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Luckard
I know. Although it starred the biggest movie star in the world and was directed by one of the all-time greats, the film is shockingly unknown and unloved.

It's one of my absolute favorites, but I've resigned myself to the fact that Warners has no interest in correcting a problem that only one seemingly crazy person cares about, and I can't really blame them. I wish there had been an internet outcry as there was over the similar mistake on the Superman: The Movie DVD, but I'm realistic.

It's really odd isn't it? As Hitchcock pastiche's go, it's right up there. This is similar to the cock-up Warner made with the subtitles on Never So Few, which few bitched about and consequently, I don't think that was ever fixed.

 

[Richard--W]

I've never understood why this brilliant Roman Polanski thriller is not more widely known and better appreciated. It's one of the best, strongest genre films of the 1980s.

I do wish there was no such thing as a 4% PAL speed up on region 2 DVD's. The higher pitch is noticeable on Frantic but not annoyingly so like on other transfers. At present the region 2 DVD is the only way to see the film. I recommend it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frantic-DVD-Harrison-Ford/dp/B00004CZQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1279307933&sr=1-1

It is widescreen, spoken in English with occasional incidental French as intended, and in good clear sharp quality.

As for dealing with Warner Brothers -- forget it. There is a real attitude problem among some of the administrators in the Home Video division. They know what's right, and could have done a proper transfer at the get-go if they'd wanted to. To knowingly issue a flawed transfer when it's just as easy to issue a proper transfer and then ignore it because complaints don't pile up -- this is not someone who can be reasoned with.

 

[John Hodson]

Go get 'em Richard... /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif

 

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Richard--W
At present the region 2 DVD is the only way to see the film. I recommend it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frantic-DVD-Harrison-Ford/dp/B00004CZQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1279307933&sr=1-1

It is widescreen, spoken in English with occasional incidental French as intended, and in good clear sharp quality.

As for dealing with Warner Brothers -- forget it. There is a real attitude problem among some of the administrators in the Home Video division. They know what's right, and could have done a proper transfer at the get-go if they'd wanted to. To knowingly issue a flawed transfer when it's just as easy to issue a proper transfer and then ignore it because complaints don't pile up -- this is not someone who can be reasoned with.

That's the DVD I own. It actually includes the defective track from the American Blu-Ray and calls it a "French" track. The picture quality is about one step above a 1998-era Quicktime file, but the American 4:3 DVD looks even worse.

I think the issue with Warners, aside from the lack of complaints, is that the technical mistake is so complicated and subtle that they don't really believe or understand me.

 

[Richard--W]

They understand you, James Luckard, and they knew about the language and transfer before you raised the subject.

Let's be fair to Warner Home Video. They released Frantic in 1999, right at the beginning of the DVD technology and home video market. And like most DVD's from that time, it's marginally better than laser-disc quality. So I cut them some slack. But there's no excuse for issuing an early DVD transfer on Blu-ray in 2010, is there?

 

[Brandon Conway]

It's not an early DVD transfer on Blu-ray. The issue is with the audio stream, which is a different element than the video presentation.

 

[Richard--W]

Take another look at the transfer.

 

[James Luckard]

Why should he take another look at it? They're not the same. As he explained, my only issue is with the incorrect audio track on the current Blu-Ray. The transfer on the Blu is a decent if unexceptional 16:9 transfer, unlike the American DVD, which had an unwatchably pixelated pan and scan 4:3 transfer

Originally Posted by Richard--W
Take another look at the transfer.

 

[James Luckard]

Edited 9/22
 
The Blu-Ray of Frantic released in France is defective too.
 
It includes both "English" and "French" audio tracks. However they are both the same troublesome "French" dub. The proper English track is still MIA.
 
http://www.amazon.fr/Frantic-Blu-ray-Harrison-Ford/dp/B003EURAEW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1282549414&sr=8-2
 
The review below at least explains something I suspected about the bizarre "French" track, which has been erroneously included on every Blu-Ray so far as the "English" track, and is actually about 90% English.
 
It was created by Polanski for the French market to reinforce the film's theme of Americans lost in Paris who can't speak the language, and was intended to run with French subtitles throughout the English scenes.
 
The French disc is region-free, for what it's worth.
 
http://www.dvdfr.com/dvd/f152046-frantic.html
 
In addition, it doesn't share the disc with another entire feature film, so perhaps the video file size will be bigger and give better picture quality.
 
It has also been released in Germany, but with no "English" audio track at all:
http://www.amazon.de/Frantic-Blu-ray-Harrison-Ford/dp/B003GZ4QJW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1282552092&sr=8-2

 

[Brandon Conway]

If it's a Warner release, it's definitely region free.

 

[Mark-P]

Are you sure it includes an English track? I don't see "Anglais" in any of the "Langues"
 

Originally Posted by James Luckard
It includes both the original English and "French" audio tracks: