Power conditioners and amps (1 Viewer)

[MarcUR]

not to hijack this thread as it has been extremly informative; but i believe I have a power problem at my apt and think someone might have a solution(product) recommendation for me. The problem is when playing music, watching TV, DVDs, etc, the right channel will experience a static pop wound when the TV (Sony 32" FD Trinitron KV-32FS210) is powered on. If i shut the TV off, i can listen to the audio without any problems, that includes, DVDs (coaxial digital connection), CDs, even TV audio (analog). Once the TV is on, the problem comes back. I've gone through 3 receivers (NAD 743) and had the same problem in the same channel, so I believe its a power issue. I've done the typical problem solving of switching the speakers (they are about 5 ft from the TV), changing the wires, etc, its always the same thing. I've tried the Home Theatre POWERBAR™ 1100 from Monster, but it didn't solve the problem, although i felt it reduced the pops. Being that I rent, i'm not sure I can get the landlord to bring in an electrician. Are there any products out there that might help solve this problem. Thanks. Ideally I don't want to spend much more than $200 or so on the problem, but if I have to spend more its an option.

 

[mark-h]

Any opinions on this companies isolation transformers? I've used them for clients computer systems when they are in poor power grid areas but don't know if they would work for audio/video applications.

www elect-spec com

 

[Chu Gai]

Is this only one pop or does it continue to 'pop' when the TV is on?

 

[MarcUR]

its one pop at a time. Sometimes there is 30-45 minute break in between them, other times its more frequent. I've even thought it occured in tandem of when I turn on house appliances (microwave, dryer), but there isn't a 100% correlation, as I can't duplicate the sound on demand. I don't get snow or anything when I watch TV though. When i first moved in, i recall the power going out occassionally, as i would have to reset the clocks every now and then. I haven't had that problem since i've picked up the receiver though, but guessing with my limiting knowledge that maybe my place isn't receiving enough consistent juice to power everything. Being a three level condo, i wonder if it could be related to what the neighbors or using as well.

 

[Jerzy]

I recently had a 20 amp "OMC" Brickwall device hooked in to my dedicated home theater circuit. All amps, players and projector are protected. I have not noticed significant performance changes to my system, except perhaps clearer and more defined bass.(may be my imagination). The device cost about $150, and so far I am very happy with this cheap insurance.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well the above, and what you wrote later suggests that the TV is the culprit here. Since it's reproducible, you can take a stab at confirming whether it's a result of something being emitted through the air (in which case, you just might be up the creek), or back down the lines. Now I take it your TV is hooked up to your system somehow. Try disconnecting all the wires and cables that go from your TV to your system and see if the problem persists.

 

[MarcUR]

unfortunately, there are no connections from the TV to the receiver. All video is sent directly to the TV, and all audio is sent directly to the Receiver. There are no connections involved between the two. I had a technician come look at the tv, but they have never heard of such a problem. I think my next bet is a stage three monster power conditioner, as stage 2 didn't do the job.

 

[Chu Gai]

Just some additional thoughts based on what you've said so far.
Regarding insufficient power...well I can't necessarily see that as the reason for the pops but you could always determine what else is on the circuit and get an idea if there's the possibility of an excessive load. Then compare what's on the line to the breaker.
I can only hope that your neighbors aren't sharing your electricity outlets but strange things like this have happened.
That the pop is only heard on one side is peculiar. Now you've said you've swapped all the cables. I take it that means things like the speaker cables, the interconnects that go from your DVD player to your receiver. Further I'd check my speaker wire connections just to be on the safe side. No stray bare wires I take it.
In a sence, there's still a connection, albeit an indirect one if I'm reading this right. The DVD player has a cable going to the TV and audio cables going to the receiver. Try disconnecting the video cable going to the TV and observe. Yeah, you'll be listening to just dialog but you can always pick up Frampton's Live DVD and it's not so bad!
May sound weird, but if you're still getting the pops coming out of the right side, just for the hell of it, rotate the TV 180 degrees and see if this still happens.

 

[mark-h]

Any recommendations for whole house surge protectors?

 

[Chu Gai]

Intermatic, Siemens, Hammer-Cutler, or just call a few electrical supply houses or electricians and get some models. They tend to be more the same than different because the technology is very mature. Paying more gets you some features like 'surge counters'. OTOH, call your local utility and see if they offer a service where they'll install one for a monthly surcharge to your bill.

 

[David S]

You should also look at the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet (offers surge protection) and their juice bar(no protection). I plug my Parasound 2205AT into the UO, the juice bar into the UO, and all other equipment into the juice bar. The UO does not limit current, and this approach has worked well in my system.

 

[Chu Gai]

I believe PS Audio is using Silicon Avalanche Diodes.

 

[mark-h]

The Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C seems to be the only one that covers power/cable/phone.

Since I have identified a buzz in my speakers that goes away when I unplug the cable from the house I think I should cover that.

Any other suggestions Chu?

Mark

 

[mark-h]

Oh, yeah. One other product I looked up that sounds good (I work on computers not electrical thingy's) is the SurgeX SX20-NE/RT.

I currently have a 125Amp breaker box on my house btw...

Mark

 

[Chu Gai]

the buzz (hum?) in your speakers may be due to a grounding problem with your cable. if that's the case, do some searches for various people's suggestions.

 

[John Morton]

MarkUR, I hope you get it fixed, and definitely let us know what was the cause when you do. I'm building a new house now and this thread will go a long way in helping me wire.

This may just be the best thread I've ever read!!
Thanks everybody!!

 

[MarcUR]

just an update, still having the popping sound. I've now have the receiver hooked up with no inputs at all, just the left and right channel. If I power it on, and watch TV (no conections between the two), I'll still get the popping sound coming from the speakers. I've tried the Monster Power Reference PowerCenter™ HTS 3500 MKII with Clean Power™ Stage 3 v2.0 with no luck at all. I've been trying to watch the voltage meter and see if there is any correlations with the pops, but I haven't been able to link the two yet.

 

[John A. Casler]

Marc,

I don't think "any" power conditioner will help the problem.

What you report sounds like an electrical signal in the TV.

Might be a faulty degaussing mechanism, or an arcing circuit that arcs when your power reaches a certain level or saturation.

I would try another TV if you have one around (like in the bedroom, for a few hours and see if it, too caused the same problem. If so then I would look at the wiring and outlet to the TV. It could also be anything on that same circuit, such as an arcing light switch. You might want to try a few of the switches that might be on that circuit and see if they make it pop.

While Power conditioners and protectors can help clean up problems of some type, I'm not sure from your description if they can help this.

Your problem sounds more like it is either the TV, or the circuit the TV is on.

Also, if you have the video cables running straight to the TV from the DVD player or SAT/Cable box, and the dvd/sat/cable audio is then either connected to the receiver via a metal based cable, or power cable is plugged into the wall on the same circuit as the TV then they are "electrically connected".

Good luck

 

[MarcUR]

"Might be a faulty degaussing mechanism, or an arcing circuit that arcs when your power reaches a certain level or saturation"

any chance you can explain this a little further, is this a issue with the receiver or TV? Unfortunately I can't try another TV, as the one I have is 32' ~200lbs, and isn't easy to move. I've actually tried hooking the receiver to various outlets in the apt via a 100 ft extension cord, but I'm wondering if everything is on the same circuit being I live in a 2 bedroom condo (middle level of a 3 level complex).

"Also, if you have the video cables running straight to the TV from the DVD player or SAT/Cable box"

I have absolutely nothing connected to the receiver, its just plugged into the an outlet with wiring for two speakers, no inputs or outputs at all, yet I'm still get the pops.

One new thing i noticed looking at the Voltage meter was when the pop occurs, the meter would then drop to about 116, otherwise it hovered between 120-122. I am not sure if that means anything. Additionally, I live about .75 miles from a virginia/dominion power center, where there a bunch of electic lines. No idea if that plays a role either. Lastly, with everything being said, could my NAD receiver be more sensitive to the problem and therefore another receiver not cause these pops?

 

[Chu Gai]

I think the culprit is the TV and my reasoning for rotating it 180 degrees was to take a stab at determining if there is an electrical malfunction inside the unit (to one side actually) that's emitting an EMI pulse through the airwaves in which case I'd expect the pop to now come out of the other side. Make sense?
As Mr. Casler points out, if such is the case, no power conditioner is going to help you. Even if it did, this would lead you down the path of ignoring the problem with the TV which perhaps can gradually get worse and then you're out of warranty.
Have service come in again and see about getting it repaired or exchanged.