Potential new petition ..... Phantom Menace (w/ DTS)..... (1 Viewer)

[Tom J. Davis]

Just give me the damn disc!! They can put whatever sound format they want on it.

 

[Rob Gillespie]

How can you say it's a lie David? Were you part of the crew that worked on the disc?
You cannot compare it to other titles that have DD and DTS soundtracks. Each film is different and as such uses differing amounts of bandwidth for image quality.
Perhaps Lucasfilm just wanted the best image quality they could squeeze out of the disc? Novel idea.

 

[Dan Brecher]

The big thing about DTS, so many people love it for the fact they often strike DTS mixes from superior 6 track masters, I really don't see why they do this and deprive DD tracks from using the best source material possible (Pvt Ryan and Gladiator come to mind as solid examples).
To quote Rob Gillespie, "it's all in the mix, and right now there's nothing to say Lucasfilm have not gone and used the best source material available for the Dolby track. I'm not going to make any assumptions that they don't know what they're doing on a DVD they've been working on for well over a year.
quote: Take a good look at the Pearl Harbor set(s).[/quote]
Indeed, and dont forget on the 3 disc set the film of Pearl Harbour itself now spans 2 discs. Also, just because a set like Pearl Harbour can carry both tracks, its doesnt mean there has been no slight comprimise on image quality. We'll never know because we'll never see otherwise.
It's possible both tracks comprimise on video quality a bit on many of these dual DD/DTS releases, but by how much we dont know since we dont make the discs. Often it may be the case that yeah, it affects the image a little, but not enough to go ahead and drop the DTS. It's just possible Lucasfilm didn't even want to comprimse the image even a little, which, as a proud owner of the LD, is fine by me!
quote: Maybe petitioning for an Episode I DTS track seems trivial to some, but I think that because we've waited this long for The Phantom Menace on DVD, we should have our opinions seriously heard on what we would like to see/hear on the DVD release.[/quote]
...and they listened, they considered it, but hop over to a few of the major websites and check out some of the interviews on offer with Lucasfilm's VP of marketing (Jim Ward). I believe it's in the interview with him over at DVD File in which he clearly states the reasons for them not going ahead and adding a DTS track.

Now, to tell the hurds that there is no space on a dvd-9 (and how about a dvd-14?......) to hold TPM, a 1/2 dts track, a dd track and nothing else ( on that disc, except the menus and subtitles or catpions) is a lie.

Jolly good thing that isnt what they said in regard to dropping DTS on TPM then, isn't it?
Dan (UK)
[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 17, 2001 at 12:38 PM]
[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 17, 2001 at 12:44 PM]

 

[Jeff Ashforth]

Considering such a small percentage of A/V Receivers can even decode dts-ES, much less the 24/96 format, why does it make sense to include this track? Especially when you already have a fantastic mix in a format that more consumer's equipment can decode.
When more than just a handful of people have access to that technology (assuming it does not become obsolete before full market penetration) THEN it would make sense for Fox to re-release it in that format.
Remember, given a certain set of circumstances any disc has the potential to be better than it is. Less extras, a different mix, spreading the movie over 2 discs etc.. etc.
At some point you have to say: "Is this the best product we can release within a budget and in the current marketplace?"
I think the answer to that question, in the case of TPM, is yes. So just sit back and enjoy the ride.
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"I don't know, I'm just making this up as I go."
My Spare time larcenists
The worst HT in America.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Lucas as the THX, now the THX EX, Steven has the DTS, everyone of these big boys has his toy thus, fine.

Sure, David, and those two guys never cooperate or work together. Couldn't happen in a million years.

M.

 

[David-alexander]

Jee, are you all naive or what ?

Do people REALLY believe Lucas and co will tell us the real reason ? Not to say they don't tell us the truth but who knows ? They sure will never tell us they don't dts for this or that real reason, if any. duh!!!
As for cooperation between the two, sure they did. And could again once they start (? euh ?) Indy IV ( I imagine Sean in a wheelchair: "Go Junior!" LOL!).
Dan:
As for dolby tracks vs dts tracks, dolby tracks have to deal with dialnorm and downcooking ( neologism lol!) for guys who prefer to listen to a downconverted dolby 5.1 instead of the dolby surround track. DTS does not have to deal with that. But sure, often you can feel a different mix was used.
And please, notice I crowned the DD LD of TPM
kinda.... love that gubba fish chumpted out or the ambassadors' ship blown off, those smooth 5-20hz....... miom!!
On th video quality: since the movie has a lot of daylight scenes, I'd say it's less tricky to encode compared to XMEN or DARK CITY for instance ( doesn't black scenes put a more challenging task on MPEG encoding ?).
anyway, a petition is worthless. just give us the disc with an awesome track, that's all.

 

[Dan Brecher]

quote: Jee, are you all naive or what? [/quote]
.......................
quote: Do people REALLY believe Lucas and co will tell us the real reason ? Not to say they don't tell us the truth but who knows ? They sure will never tell us they don't dts for this or that real reason, if any. duh!!! [/quote]
From DVD File's Jim Ward interview :
DF: Needless to say, even in just the few hours since the announcement this morning, we've received email lamenting the lack of a DTS track on the DVD. Is it correct there won't be one on there?
JW: That is correct. That was a tough call. When you go about configuring and compiling a DVD, especially a two-disc set, there is a lot of content issues and bandwidth issues that we have to take into account. So we had to make some tough choices in order to accommodate all of the desires of everyone involved in terms of the content included on the disc. And (not including a DTS track) was just one of those decisions we had to make.
What a shock! No conspiracies then, they thought about it long and hard, and decided not to do it in good reason. THE END.
Dan (UK)
[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 17, 2001 at 12:59 PM]

 

[RobertR]

dolby tracks have to deal with dialnorm and downcooking

Nope. There is no "have to" involved. Dialnorm and "downcooking" are OPTIONS which people can choose to use or NOT.

 

[YANG]

PEARL HARBOR's DD+DTS release may have some sort of DVD sexual appeal to all,but the final product have not reach our homes yet,therefore,we should not be making any early verdict than which surpasses which.
The lack of DTS track for such an awsome SCIFI does indeed dissapoints most,including me.The movie runs about 130mins++,with two digital surround tracks,there should be more than enough space if the extras are consolidated in the second disc.
FOX's THIN RED LINE runs 171mins with two digital surround tracks,but comes without any animated menus that may take up some data space.
Back to PHANTOM MENACE.When i watch this movie in the theater,the EX track is not a totally discrete 6.1 track isn't it?

 

[Rob Gillespie]

OK David, you're right. There is a conspiracy. Lucas decided to withold DTS just to piss you off.
And it's working a treat!!!!!!!!!
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"One does not simply walk into Mordor."
Link Removed

 

[Dan Brecher]

quote: The movie runs about 130mins++,with two digital surround tracks,there should be more than enough space if the extras are consolidated in the second disc.[/quote]
Yang, again, no one has outright said there is not enough space, it's simply been said that, under the circumstances, whilst it was considered, it was subsequently dropped due to fears of it comprimising the quality of other elements.
It's impossible to argue and say that "oh this disc pulled it off by having DD and DTS so why cant TPM" because every film has different demands and requirements when it comes to pulling off the best video transfer.
They know what they're doing.
quote: Back to PHANTOM MENACE.When i watch this movie in the theater,the EX track is not a totally discrete 6.1 track isn't it?[/quote]
Dolby EX is matrix, not discrete 6.1.
Dan (UK)
[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 17, 2001 at 01:25 PM]

 

[Todd Hochard]

I'm not sure that the few ardent dts supporters can be objective on this issue.
Honestly, sometimes I think video quality is irrelevant to many. Is it bad eyesight that makes this unimportant? Crappy monitor and/or DVD setup? Does the dts stamp make the disc taste better???
Help me understand here.
Todd

 

[David-alexander]

arf! mega lol!!!!
conspiracy ?? who said that ? I didn't
dts rimes with poor video quality ? LOL.
downcooking: downcooking is done during the encoding, this is not something we can change or that is done by the receiver-processor or whatever. I'm puzzled so many dvd guys don't have 5.1 capability.....
Maybe I should try in Chinese to be more clear: the laserdisc dd is awesome, just give us that. Fly rice!

 

[Scott Simonian]

Wow. I had no idea I would cause such an up-roar.

It just seems to me that it WOULD be possible. I dont really know much about authoring dvds, dont you think taht they could move those extras on disc 1 to disc 2?
I dont know, in fact, nobody knows waht the picture is going to be like on SW:TPM or Pearl Harbor. It just seems like Lucas wants to show of the original DD track made and doesnt want DTS to beat it (if in fact it IS better).
Hey, Im still going to buy it. I love Dolby and I support them with all there work. Its just that I would like to enjoy the movie in (MY) favorite format. Its optional. I can definetly live without it. I know its a great mix, I really looking forward to it.
Hey, I only have the widescreen VHS (!).
As for the whole petition deal. I just thought I wasnt the only one who thought that Lucas and co. are pulling are chains and just want THEIR DD-EX on the disc. I guess it was a bit too much to start a petition on this little thing of DTS. Its not like its not going to be ONLY in P&S(!). Now that would be a REAL problem. eecckkkk!!!!!!
See where Im coming from. Its just that there are millions out there who are dieing to get this on dvd and they would like to have the option of it being in DD or DTS.
[Edited last by Scott Simonian on August 17, 2001 at 04:09 PM]

 

[Dwayne]

I know this thread is about sound, but nowadays, I'm feeling lucky if a release is presented in it's OAR.
That said, I look forward to hearing this mix. I only hope that it's of the same calibre, if not better, of the LD.
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-Dwayne
"And vidi films I would."

 

[Jon D]

Last I heard, "downcooking: (or 'conforming for downmixing') is done in the studio by engineers. This new "Conformed' master is then encoded. The encoder does not automatically conform mixes. That's why we love seeing 2.0 surround tracks on DVD. True, they take up space, but it also means that the 5.1 track was not compromised. Fox is in the practice of creating 2.0 tracks and leaving the 5.1's alone. And, in my opinion, that's probably why a great deal of Fox DVD's have amazingly transparent 5.1 tracks, and that makes me believe that TPM will be everybody's new lover. Loosen up, people. DTS is not the 'end all, be all' sound format. I didn't even blink an eye when it wasn't included.
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Women are often attracted to men with money and power. I have neither, and they know it.

 

[David-alexander]

Downcooking still occurs on DD 5.1 even of a DS 2.0 is present, because.. there are..... a lot......of folks..... who still...... can't decode 5.1 and but still want to listen to it downconverted in stereo surround/prologic.
I would not say FOX has the edge in DD 5.1 though.... I often times was much more pleased with 5.1 DD from other studios.

 

[Anthony_D]

I don't think Lucasfilm has some ulterior motive for not releasing a DTS track. As much as I would prefer a DTS track, I'll be quite happy with all of those wonderful extras instead.
I'm more concerned with the possibility of the DVD not sounding as good as the LD. My step-bro has it and the sound is unfucking believeable!

 

[RobertR]

quote: Downcooking still occurs on DD 5.1 even of a DS 2.0 is present, because.. there are..... a lot......of folks..... who still...... can't decode 5.1 and but still want to listen to it downconverted in stereo surround/prologic.[/quote]
You still have it wrong, David. That's what the separate 2.0 track is for -- for the people who can't decode 5.1. Otherwise, there would be no reason to put it on there.
[Edited last by RobertR on August 17, 2001 at 07:38 PM]

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Gee guys, can I scream??????????????????????????????
I read a few years back that GL stated that the TPM DVD will only come out after DD-EX does. He did not say DTS. Just because the DTS users think that DTS is better than DD doesn't mean that the whole world is going to cater to their desires. After all, 8 track was better than casette tapes when they both came out, and the same went for Betamax vs. VHS. If you don't know what they were then I feel sorry for your lack of ignorance.
Maybe we should get a petition going to have TPM released without Mr. Binks. Ok, maybe not. That isn't what GL had in mind. GET IT????
Glenn