Poor sound quality in Transformers HD DVD. (1 Viewer)

[xious]

Sorry to bring up an older post, but being that Transformers is my first HD-DVD movie, I was really caught off guard of how bad it sounds. I have both the SD and the HD versions of the movie. I have the Toshiba A30 player. If I throw in the SD version in the A30, the sound effects are amazing. If I throw in the HD version, the LFE is just not there, even with my my bass turned up. I had the player download whatever it needed, but it did not seem to fix the problem.

Has anyone figured out if it's a setting or if it's just the HD version of the movie has a horrible soundtrack?

X

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I really don't get the complaints about this soundtrack. I have ~100 HD and Blu Ray titles, and this is one of the best sounding discs i've heard.

 

[Terrence B]

I have 1/3 octave RTA connected to each of my main channels, and a 1/6 octave on connected to my LFE for review purposes. What I found with Transformers is that they mixed a great majority of the bass into the main channels, and into the LFE at a much lower level. The bass mixed into the mains does not have the LFE boost, so when combined with the bass at the subwoofer, there is a lack of impact. When I first listened to Transformers, I was listening to my system without the dedicated subs on the LFE, and the LFE redirected to the subs in my L/R mains. I heard no issues whatsover, the impact was there. When I got my subs back from being upgraded, I listening to it again with the two subs handling the LFE, and each of my front channels(L,C,R) handling their own bass, and the surrounds set to small with a crossover of 50hz. Even then I didn't really here anything different, I noticed the LFE RTA barely jumping at any frequency, and the input signal meter barely jumping as well. The RTA for the mains were showing bass as deep as 25hz in each of those channels. Based on this observation I can only guess that all of the loud low bass is in the three front channels, and the LFE at a lower level, when it should be the reverse.

 

[Paul.S]

Thanks, Terrence. I haven't done any spectrum analysis but what you're saying comports with my listening experiences.

Is it Ironhide that Bumblebee takes out with the help of Mikaela driving the tow truck? Whichever Decepticon it is that gets killed at the end of that sequence, there's some serious low end mixed to center channel when he is killed. At reference + level, my center channel bottomed out during that scene. It's an admittedly smallish speaker, but that has not happened before at similar volume levels.

 

[Racer57]

This thread is to technical for me. I posted on the sound issue over one month ago and only got 2 replies which didn't help. I am using optical also and I think I have a bad disk. By the way, I do have latest Tosh firmware update, no difference. My chief complaint is in the diaglogue where in parts it almost sounds like it is echoing.

Roger

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I believe that is Devastator that Bumblebee takes out, and yes, that low bass as he's going down is absolutely the lowest bass I've heard in the movie, and my entire system. It's much deeper than the 'Ironhide slo-mo flip over screaming girl' scene, and completely rattles my entire room.

 

[Paul.S]

Thx, Jeff. LOL re 'Ironhide slo-mo flip over screaming girl.' I was deceived by the Decepticons into confusing Devastator for Ironhide!

Terrence and Jeff: How does the low end in that scene compare to the blast wave that knocks out the control tower windows at the beginning of the Soccent attack near the beginning of the pic? I think I'm fantasizing about the bass I think should be/wish was there but is not (or at least I'm not hearing/feeling it). I'm wondering if it's because it falls in a frequency range that my mains (and center) either can't reproduce loudly, or maybe I need to lower my crossover freq.


Roger: I guess you posted somewhere else, as this is your first post to this thread? Can you share a little more info please--like, what player do you have? I'm assuming you don't have the ability to have the audio carried via HDMI? What about trying coaxial? Have you tried switching the Dialogue Enhancement setting in Setup?

 

[Michael Reuben]

In your other thread, you said the sound was "distorted". Are you talking about the same thing here, or something different?

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...o-problem.html

M.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I have no complaints about the track, and I'm listening on an ancient Pioneer Dolby Digital receiver with limited bass management.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

The bass in that scene does not even come close to comparing to the stuff in the end battle. I think people just are overestimating what they think should be there. Mind you it's still nice and loud, just not close to the end stuff. I'm going purely from memory right now, I'll have to pull it out tomorrow night and do a re-listen.

For reference, my system set up is as follows: XA2 going out HDMI to a Denon AVR 2807 connected to a SVS PB10-NSD Subwoofer, with a 80Hz crossover. This subwoofer has no trouble putting out the 15-20Hz tones on the digital video essentials HD DVD.

 

[Paul.S]

Thx, Jeff.

It could be messy if the BD really does get the rumored lossless track. What if they re-eq the mix? Many will then attribute the improved/different sq to lossless when there very well may be other such variables.

 

[Michael Reuben]

It might be even worse than that.

A lot of the complaints are from people who are connecting HD DVD players via S/PDIF (usually optical, since that's what most Toshiba HD DVD players have). That means the DD+ track on Transformers is being transcoded to something else, depending on which model of Toshiba player.

Now, if those same people connect a Blu-ray player via optical S/PDIF, there'll be a whole other type of transcoding involved -- or, if it's a Dolby TrueHD track, perhaps a hidden standard DD track, which is commonly included on Blu-ray discs for compatability.

Either way, it's going to be almost impossible to know whether one is getting an apples-to-apples comparison.

M.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I'd be worried that they see all the complaints about the 'poor' bass on HD-DVD and artificially inflate it for the Blu Ray track. Putting extra loud boomy bass in a track where it wasn't intended to be is not a good thing.

 

[Paul.S]

Yes, M. Even more sauce for the goose.

Good point, Jeff. There are those who feel that is what Universal did pursuant to myriad complaints about not enough LFE on the DTS Jurassic Park when they re-released that title.

 

[Terrence B]

I have to agree with Jeff. While that scene is very powerful, it does not compare to the last battle scene.

If you center speaker is bottoming out, you should raise the crossover point higher. If you think your mains cannot playback the deep bass in the soundtrack, you should raise the crossover on them as well. Bass should be directed to the speakers that are most capable of cleanly and accurately reproducing it. Most likely its the subwoofer, as very few speakers main or center speakers can do it without alot of distortion, and quite possibly bottoming out.

 

[xious]

Well, I think Mr. Reuben hit it on the head. I have the Toshiba A30 and it just does not decode the audio very well from Transformers. It plays the audio nicely through the SD version, but the HD just doesn't sound all that great. Well, I just purchased the LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray burner and HDDVD ROM for my HTPC. The full audio spectrum is back. The movie sounds absolutely amazing. All the lows are back where they're supposed to be. I've only watched a couple movies through the LG, but so far I am completely satisfied with the sound. Transformers has become one of my favorite movies. The Toshiba A30 was a big disappointment with this movie, but now it's raised back to the top of the list.

X

 

[Paul.S]

Shane:

How are you getting the audio out of your HTPC to your HT rig--HDMI? Or are you referring to a dedicated HTPC listening experience: watching on your computer monitor and listening to a 5.1 speaker system hooked up to your PC?

In the case of the latter, I don't think HTPC-to-HT rig would be an 'apples-to-apples' comparison that minimizes/eliminates variables to the extent we can identify the player as the culprit.

In the case of the former, were you listening to the A30 via HDMI also?

 

[xious]

I was running the audio from my A30 through the optical port to my Yamaha receiver. Now, I am running from my HTPC via the digital output of my Audigy2 sound card to my Yamaha receiver. The video is running via HDMI on both, but I don't have HDMI on my Yamaha receiver. Otherwise I would be running both audio and video through the HDMI.

 

[Paul.S]

Shane:

The problem as I see it and as has been mentioned earlier in the thread is that, due to the connectivity differences (optical digital from the A30 versus coaxial digital from the HTPC?), you aren't making an "apples-to-apples" comparison.

Yes, in theory they should be identical. But fwiw I'd feel more comfortable if that variable were eliminated before coming to any conclusions about what the culprit is.

There are those with A30s who aren't having SQ issues.