Pioneer DV-45A does not have bass management (1 Viewer)

[Ron Newsome]

Actually, I only ever did test the 4.0 tracks on the Chesky disc. How do you get to the 2.0 DVD-A tracks?

Press the menu button on your remote and that selection should come up on your screen.

 

[Tony Genovese]

And can anybody offer any explanation as to why I get bass with the Morton Subotnick 4.0 recording and no bass with the Chesky 4.0 recording?

Perhaps the disk isn't flagged properly and is actually outputting a .1 track.

 

[Brad_H]

A little off topic, but...
for those of you that have the 47Ai, are any of you using a philips pronto or marantz touch screen remote? If you are could you shoot me an email?

Thanks.

Brad

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Ron- I've tried that like ... a million times!
Maybe what I need to do, is to go into the "disc navigator" menu of the 47ai, and see if it's a different "group" or something. I will try again.

 

[DennisK]

I tested my 45a with the fronts set to small and the subwoofer on using the 2 channel tracks on Donald Fagan's The Nightfly DVD-A. I didn't get any bass either.

One thing I thought of that might explain why it appears to work with some discs and not others is that it might be possible to turn off the bass management at the data level. I know with my old Pioneer, I found some discs were flagged to prevent the last memory function (fortunately the 45a bypasses that) which was probably part of the copy protection. Is it possible to set up a DVD-A disc to turn off bass management or that a copy protection flag is interfering with the processor?

 

[Brian L]

Is it possible to set up a DVD-A disc to turn off bass management or that a copy protection flag is interfering with the processor?

That would be a first, I think.

Then again, the whole BM deal is so totally FUBAR with these universal and DVD/SACD players that I would also not discount anything.

BGL

 

[Mike Sloan]

Brian L...did you get my Private message?

 

[Ben Jordan]

With speakers set to small with my 45A, I get bass from my sub with all my DVD-A's with the 2 channel mix. I don't have any 4.0's to try yet.

Also my bass output is not low. Mine has a little round sticker next to the subwoofer output.

 

[Brian L]

Brian L...did you get my Private message?

Got it, reply just sent.

Sorry, I don't normally use the PM stuff....would not have known you sent it unless you prompted me!

BGL

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Stupid, stupid me. :b The DVD-A 2.0 mix of the Chesky Ultimate disc *is* right on the main disc's menu. Don't know how I missed that.
OK, on this disc (note how I qualify that! ), the 47ai BM *does* work on the DVD-A 2.0 mix. Just not the 4.0 mix. Maybe an oversight by Pioneer? How many 4.0 discs could be out there? 2.0 and 5.1 would be the most common I'd think. Maybe Pioneer missed 4.0.
But, OK, what I can't understand at this point, is that on the back of the jewel box, it doesn't even say 4.0. Just 5.1 MLP DVD-A. So the player shouldn't even know it's a 5.1 vs 4.0 mix, right? So maybe 2.0 is a fluke, and the BM doesn't work for 5.1 DVD-A either...
(Actually, this disc *can* also be tested for DVD-A 5.1 with some of the sub tests. Tomorrow...)
But others have noted that sometimes 2.0 DVD-A mixes also don't work sometimes? Is that confirmed? Tony? *Maybe* it is disc dependent?

 

[Tony Genovese]

Kevin:

I don't have any DVD-A 2.0 disks, so I couldn't test it. And, I don't have the 45A any more either. I took it back yesterday. Since I got the ICBM, the bass management issue ceased being a problem for me. Since I have room for an additional component in my cabinet, I decided to go with a dedicated SACD player (the Sony 222ES) and DVD player (the Panny RP91). Not quite as elegant a solution, but the best of both worlds, I think. BTW, I'm using the ICBM with both of them. What seems to be the upshot of all this discussion is that the 45A/47ai has inconsistent BM for DVD-A - and certainly is not functioning "as advertised". In addition, given the fixed crossover frequency, I consider an ICBM de rigeur if one wants to optimize SACD/DVD-A playback. One neat feature of the ICBM is the LFE blend control, which allows you to back off on the LFE. The theory is that some multi-channel music disks are mixed hot on the LFE. I've noticed some boom from some of them. Tweaking the LFE eliminates the boom.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Tony- You could have used the ICBM with the Pioneer!
But I certainly understand also going with separate, potentially better, individual players...

 

[Tony Genovese]

I know, I know. But at that point I was already committed to getting the dedicated players. My other idea was to upgrade to the 47ai, but the lure of a dedicated SACD changer proved too great .
All in all it cost a few bucks more, but I've got about as flexible a setup as possible given what's available. I long for the day of a digital connection so we can forget about all this bm stuff .

 

[Brian L]

I long for the day of a digital connection so we can forget about all this bm stuff .

Tony,

You make the assumption that someone will get it right in a Receiver or Pre/pro with a digital link. If they don't get it right in the universal players, I have great fear that they will get it wrong elsewhere.

BM is not new. Its been around for a while. I don't know why almost every vendor seems to get it wrong in one form or another.

S&V said that the 45A had it right on all formats. You and others have proved that there appear to be some scenarios where that is not right.

S&V says the high dollar Pioneer Receiver/DVD Player have it right.

Hummmm. I am just waiting for a post for some poor guy who just dropped $6K for the combo, and reports that it won't do 4.0, or 2.0, or whatever.

Thank god for Outlaw. ICBM Rules!

OK, now reverting back to non-sarcasm mode.

BGL

 

[Tony Genovese]

Thank god for Outlaw. ICBM Rules!

Amen to that.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I also find it extremely amusing, that you need an *OUTLAW* ICBM to make the BM work correctly on the 5.1 inputs of the *Rotel* 1066 (due to the bass doubling that you cannot bypass like on the 950 with the 80 Hz analog crossover...). But that's way off-topic...

 

[Mike Sloan]

I still have a question regarding the ICBM and how it "fixes" the BM problem in regard to DVD-A and SACD. Granted the ICBM allows more precise and appropriate BM for each channel...and the recombine function gives you more flexibility. How does the ICBM fix the LOW LFE problem. It appears that in later model Denon's they have added a selectable boost to the LFE with their analog outputs..5/10/15. The ICBM only decreases the LFE. If you turn up the sub volume on the ICBM you are increasing everything...not just LFE. It appears to me that the the only way the ICBM will be the "real fix" is if they incorporate a boost for the LFE trim..instead of what we are stuck with..0 to -10. Please advise if I am off bass(base) here! Am I confused on this Low LFE assumption?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

If you turn up the sub volume on the ICBM you are increasing everything.

I don't think you would. Because you would still use the digital connection for CD/DD/DTS. You'd only use the ICBM in between the player and pre pro (receiver) for SACD/DVD-A.

 

[Stacy Huff]

I just found this thread today and it caught my attention because I have the 45A and while I only have a few SACD/DVD-A titles so far, one of them is the Beethoven/Barenboim Symphony No. 9 DVD-A. I haven't really noticed a problem with bass on the things I have, but I decided to try the Beethoven to see what's going on in my setup. I have all of my speakers crossed at 80hz, so they are set as small in the 45A with bass supposedly sent to the sub.

What I gathered from the prior posts was that on the Beethoven the sub is just silent, so I turned off my amps and only listened to the subs. I got output, although I wouldn't necessarily call it low bass. Both of my subs seemed to be playing something, albeit much higher than simply bass frequencies. Like somebody above posted, I could make out the music, so my 12-inch SVS drivers were playing pretty high.

Anyway, I don't know what it means. For what it is worth, the booklet that came with Beethoven says that the music on the disc can be played as DVD-Audio Advanced Resolution Surround (6-channels) or as stereo (2 channels). I don't know whether that is accurate or not, but I couldn't find anything else commenting on the number of channels. Nothing that said it is only 5.0. Since the only thing I can find seems to indicate 6 channels (although it doesn't designate any channel as a .1) maybe it is sending something to the sub. I just don't know exactly what.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Anyway, I don't know what it means.

The Pioneer use a 120hz lowpass filters with shallow 2nd order[12db/octave]slopes,so it's only 12db down at 240 hz.
Now this is a mfr spec,it could be worst or better,in actuality.Does anyone have the S&V test figures handy?