Person of Interest Season 2 (1 Viewer)

[Walter Kittel]

Not that the show's trying to create 1:1 parallels, but they're building villains that challenge our protagonists in different ways.

That is a good observation. I guess we'll see if Julian Sands attains the same status as Elias and Root in subsequent episodes (and seasons) but absolutely the challenges afforded by each of the antagonists stress the team in different manners. I like the comparison of Elias to Luthor (there is the obvious physical comparison) but Elias as criminal mastermind is a close fit. Root as Joker is apt as there is something definitely off in that pretty noggin of hers. Wesley (Sands) did mention 'the game' which kind of fits Riddler. It will be interesting to see if a future episode with Wesley employs some form of puzzle or conundrum that must be solved.
- Walter.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Walter Kittel /t/323888/person-of-interest-season-2/60#post_4002712
That is a good observation. I guess we'll see if Julian Sands attains the same status as Elias and Root in subsequent episodes (and seasons) but absolutely the challenges afforded by each of the antagonists stress the team in different manners. I like the comparison of Elias to Luthor (there is the obvious physical comparison) but Elias as criminal mastermind is a close fit. Root as Joker is apt as there is something definitely off in that pretty noggin of hers. Wesley (Sands) did mention 'the game' which kind of fits Riddler. It will be interesting to see if a future episode with Wesley employs some form of puzzle or conundrum that must be solved.
- Walter.

I don't get it!

 

[Quentin]

They are all DC super-villains, Robert.
Lex Luthor is a criminal mastermind and evil genius and one of Superman's arch-nemeses.
The Joker is the mad arch-nemeses of Batman, and The Riddler is a secondary villain of Batman's who always sets elaborate puzzle/games that Batman must solve.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear Nolan is using them as models. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if he ever goes another direction.

 

[Matt Hough]

The episode was super busy this week with almost three storylines running simultaneously, and yet the writers were able to juggle all of the balls and keep from dropping them, another impressive outing for the show. And Julian Sands will be a welcome return villain any time they need him.

 

[Walter Kittel]

So Robert, do you agree with the comparison of the series to Batman in general as it relates to Finch and Reese?
Both universes take place in a major metropolitan area.
Finch and Reese are vigilantes who embody the wealth, technological skills, and physical skills of Bruce Wayne / Batman in a composite of two individuals.
They have allies on the police force.
They face a variety of antagonists who provide different challenges (some overt, some subtle).
If you don't agree with the comparison then I can see why the comments regarding Elias, Root, and Wesley do not resonate; but if you do then doesn't it seem logical to continue the extrapolation from the protagonists to the antagonists?
Regardless, I hope you are still enjoying the show.
- Walter.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Both, Finch and Reese live in shadows without a well known alter ego like Bruce Wayne which is why I'm not buying the analogy. Vigilantes sure, but they're more like protectors of innocent parties. Anyhow, if that's what you guys see then so be it. I love the series as it's my favorite and for once I picked a winner last year that won't get cancelled anytime soon.






Crawdaddy

 

[Walter Kittel]

Both, Finch and Reese live in shadows without a well known alter ego like Bruce Wayne which is why I'm not buying the analogy.

Fair enough. And yes, it is nice to embrace a series and then see it become a success.
- Walter.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/323888/person-of-interest-season-2/60#post_4002829
Both, Finch and Reese live in shadows without a well known alter ego like Bruce Wayne which is why I'm not buying the analogy. Vigilantes sure, but they're more like protectors of innocent parties. Anyhow, if that's what you guys see then so be it. I love the series as it's my favorite and for once I picked a winner last year that won't get cancelled anytime soon.

What Nolan has done is split the character of Batman into two "studies." Finch is applicable to the Bruce Wayne character: intelligent, scientific, inventive, rich, philanthropic, and reserved (this is applicable only if you believe the common Bruce Wayne persona of public playboy is merely a facade in its own right). John is clearly applicable to Batman: intelligent (but differently), resourceful, brutally efficient, violent (but not a psycho). Together, they act to protect the innocent (mostly) New Yorkers from the criminal underbelly of the city.

Clearly it's not a straight-up analogue, which is why I've used the term "applicable." It mostly seems to be a study on the various personae in the Batman mythology, set against the backdrop of 21st century surveillance and government coverup.

Also: damned cool fight scenes.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I get it now because it's a Nolan that created and helps write this series people are making the jump to the Batman connection because of a few similarities. IMO that's not fair to the creativity of Nolan.
Crawdaddy

 

[Walter Kittel]

Well, Johnathan Nolan does have screenwriting credits for The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, so yeah people are going to connect the Batman franchise with Person of Interest. Personally, I don't see that as an insult to Johnathan Nolan. If he was some hack he would have copied some of the style of Batman but would not have been capable of imbuing PoI with any substance, nor would he have been able to grow the scope of the show in the manner we have seen in 1 1/3 seasons.
I believe that kernels of Batman are present in the series but Nolan and the show's creative team used that as a starting point to go in a different direction with their examination of the surveillance state (as Josh eludes).
Nolan on Dark Knight vs. Person of Interest and surveillance tech.
Edit: I am not really trying to convince you Robert, just talking about the show and my take on it. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on some aspects.
- Walter.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Walter Kittel /t/323888/person-of-interest-season-2/60#post_4002902
Well, Johnathan Nolan does have screenwriting credits for The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, so yeah people are going to connect the Batman franchise with Person of Interest. Personally, I don't see that as an insult to Johnathan Nolan. If he was some hack he would have copied some of the style of Batman but would not have been capable of imbuing PoI with any substance, nor would he have been able to grow the scope of the show in the manner we have seen in 1 1/3 seasons.
I believe that kernels of Batman are present in the series but Nolan and the show's creative team used that as a starting point to go in a different direction with their examination of the surveillance state (as Josh eludes).
Nolan on Dark Knight vs. Person of Interest and surveillance tech.
Edit: I am not really trying to convince you Robert, just talking about the show and my take on it. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on some aspects.
- Walter.

Hey, if you guys want to make that connection, it's fine with me. However, for me, the connections to Batman don't have much depth. Sure, they operate outside the law to protect the innocent, but they need to have money and advanced technology to finance and help them to fight such crimes before those crimes are committed. I think my biggest problem with all this is the comparisons of the villains to other established super villains. IMO, for this show to work, they need a few worthy villains, otherwise, the show becomes boring with their constant wins over less worthy adversaries.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Walter Kittel /t/323888/person-of-interest-season-2/60#post_4002902
Well, Johnathan Nolan does have screenwriting credits for The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, so yeah people are going to connect the Batman franchise with Person of Interest. Personally, I don't see that as an insult to Johnathan Nolan. If he was some hack he would have copied some of the style of Batman but would not have been capable of imbuing PoI with any substance, nor would he have been able to grow the scope of the show in the manner we have seen in 1 1/3 seasons.
I believe that kernels of Batman are present in the series but Nolan and the show's creative team used that as a starting point to go in a different direction with their examination of the surveillance state (as Josh eludes).
Nolan on Dark Knight vs. Person of Interest and surveillance tech.

Right. It's not a 1:1 analogy, but a kernel, as you say. It's like Nolan and the team examined the archetypes within the Batman mythology, across all of its incarnations (comic imprints, movies, television, et cetera), and chose to examine those archetypes. Far from an indictment on the creativity of the team involved, I think it's a testament to the skill and overall genius of the undertaking.

Really, it's a deconstruction in the proper sense (the term is commonly misused). For example, the show relies on binaries (take good and evil), and examines how that relationship breaks down and ultimately isn't legitimate.

Honestly, my favourite aspect of POI is how it has managed to be a superhero show, without overtly being one--and without the specific criticisms incumbent on such a show.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Honestly, my favourite aspect of POI is how it has managed to be a superhero show, without overtly being one--and without the specific criticisms incumbent on such a show.

Yep. As (I believe it was Adam) was pointed out previously in this thread, it is pretty amazing what they show's creative talent has been able to accomplish within the confines of a weekly one hour procedural.
Since I'm still blathering about this show; I have been catching up a friend on the show via recordings on my DVR. We are probably going to watch episode 4 today "Triggerman" and maybe 5 "Bury the Lede". Revisiting the shows I focus less on the narrative and plot and try to study details of the show in terms of cinematography, how shots are staged, music choices, etc. I really admire the skill that goes into making this series; i.e. things you might have missed on the first viewing.
Some examples:
From season 1 (I don't recall the episode) Lionel is talking to another cop from HR in the station house and while talking there is the shadow of a grill on Lionel's face. Any fan of classic film noir will tell you that this is symbolic of a character trapped by circumstance or situation.
From S02E01 "The Contingency" When Reese finds Lionel and Leon in the industrial building one of the Aryan Brotherhood goons kidney punches him and knocks him to his knees. Reese doesn't get knocked down often. By putting him on his knees it establishes an eye to eye perspective with Bear (well, before he was called Bear.)
From S02E03 "Masquerade" Great choice of music over the closing scenes. "She's Long Gone" by the Black Keys which is a very fitting song for Kara's scene with Agent Snow.
From S02E04 "Triggerman" During the conversation between Elias and Finch/Crane the camera has a slight horizontal motion throughout the scene. Thinking about this after the fact the motion is not unlike two wary animals circling one another; which is kind of what that scene was at least partially about.
Just some random musings.
- Walter.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Right.  It's not a 1:1 analogy, but a kernel, as you say.  It's like Nolan and the team examined the archetypes within the Batman mythology, across all of its incarnations (comic imprints, movies, television, et cetera), and chose to examine those archetypes.  Far from an indictment on the creativity of the team involved, I think it's a testament to the skill and overall genius of the undertaking.
Really, it's a deconstruction in the proper sense (the term is commonly misused).  For example, the show relies on binaries (take good and evil), and examines how that relationship breaks down and ultimately isn't legitimate.
Honestly, my favourite aspect of POI is how it has managed to be a superhero show, without overtly being one--and without the specific criticisms incumbent on such a show.

This sums it up well. If the parallels lined up too perfectly, I don't think I'd be as interested in the show.

 

[Walter Kittel]

I enjoyed the focus on romance as an alternative to some of the more sinister plot lines the show has explored, but I can't help but feel that they missed an opportunity by not scheduling this storyline for Valentine's Day in 2013 which happens to fall on a Thursday. Maybe some of the seeds that have been planted will bear fruit that night in 2013?
- Walter.

 

[Citizen87645]

I think airing it on Valentines Day would have been too on the nose. It was too cute as it was. The line, "Honey I'm so sorry I tried to kill you!" went too far for my taste.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Cameron Yee /t/323888/person-of-interest-season-2/60#post_4007904
I think airing it on Valentines Day would have been too on the nose. It was too cute as it was. The line, "Honey I'm so sorry I tried to kill you!" went too far for my taste.

Not one of their best episodes, but they at least attempted to give some personal romantic time to characters beyond John. It kind of personalizes and illustrates the lonely life all of those characters have been living while doing their line of work.







Crawdaddy

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The show has always had a sense of humor about it, so I was okay with the more farcical turn this week.

 

[TravisR]

The line, "Honey I'm so sorry I tried to kill you!" went too far for my taste.

I took that line to be a goof. In the sense that the character knew he was saying something ridiculous and darkly funny.

 

[Matt Hough]

There was perhaps one too many romantic subplots for my taste this week, but the weakest aspect for me was the too-quick reconciliation between the two quarreling marrieds. For me, this was the weakest episode so far this season. That said, it was still very watchable and entertaining.