Parasound Halo or Outlaw (1 Viewer)

[Ricky T]

Pamela,

I agree about not letting go after finding something that sounds great in your system! Now, if you want to be sure, perhaps you can try to borrow an amp and compare?

If the A52 is almost double the price, perhaps Chris should go with the A52 for now, and get a 2 channel Halo later when he's ready for 7.1.

 

[Chris_Bald]

I believe the A51 retails for 4G's and the A52 is 2G's.

Rick I'm confused by what you meant. Should I spend more on the beast A51 now or on the lamb A52.

 

[Parker Clack]

Chris:

I know the Halo sounds tempting and you should definitely try it out in your home but I would suggest that you allow try the Outlaw 950/770 combo. Even if you don't use all of the 770s amps you will still have a couple left over for later on. As you said you are going to be using this for a long time.

I have the 950/770 combo and I have been nothing but pleased with the overall sound of this combination. With their generous return policy you have nothing to lose by trying it out in your home and returning it if you don't like it. Just be sure to have a buddy over when you get the 770 as it weighs in at over 100 lbs in the box and 90 lbs out of the box.

THE best thing you can do for yourself is to compare system to your own likes and dislikes in your own home. And if you can do a side by side comparison.

Parker

 

[Todd_RIC]

Comparing the two controllers is absolutely no comparison... the Halo C2 wins in a landslide. If I could get the C2 for cost, that would be a done deal. There have been some problems with Outlaw 950, but the main reason I would jump on the Halo would be for it's additional channels (7.1 PLUS four customizeable channels) and software upgradeability... this processor won't be obsolete for a very, very long time. If you plan on keeping this equipment for a long time, that's a very important consideration.

The amps, on the other hand, are a different story. You would really need to audition both, but the Outlaw 770 offers a tremendous value for a well-respected, 200wpc, 7-channel amp. From everything I've read, this amp is a high quality product. Why not go with the C2 controller and the Outlaw amp? That would give you a state-of-the-art controller and some real 7.1 muscle that should last a very long time in your home. My two cents worth...

 

[Ricky T]

A couple of people mentioned that going with Halo at cost for resale value alone. Let me illustrate.

Outlaw 770 amp
New Retail = $1799
Typical Price New = $1799 (only one source, Outlaw direct)
Chris' Price New = $1799 ($1699 with the $200 discount if he gets the 950 prepro at the same time)
Used Value after 3+ months = ~ $1400 (anymore and potential buyer would just buy new from Outlaw)
Chris' expected loss on resale value = $400

Halo C52
New Retail = $2000
Typical Price New = $1700 (assumes 15% local dealer discount)
Chris' Price New = $1200 (buys at cost, assume 40% dealer points)
Used Value after 3+ months = ~ $1300 (new models like Halo should retain used values at 60-65% for a couple of years)
Chris' expected loss on resale value = not a loss, but a GAIN of $100.

 

[John Tompkins]

A couple of people mentioned that going with Halo at cost for resale value alone. Let me illustrate

Good Job Chris!

By the way, Didnt I see you on the grassy knoll ?

 

[Cees Alons]

Does anyone know why the price discounts seem to be so high on the Parasounds? Is that everywhere, or just wherever the competion is high?

Ricky, about your last post: is there a special reason why you say used values are around 60-65%, but you use around 77% in your computations? And if someone can return the machines to the dealer after a trial period he will get more back than that, isn't it?

Cees

 

[Todd_RIC]

Comparing the 770 to the A52 is bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The 770 is a 200wpc, 7 channel amp. The A52 is a 125wpc, 5 channel amp. If you're going to compare, compare the A51 (250wpc X 5)to the Outlaw 755 (200wpc X5). In order to fairly compare the Outlaw 770, you would have to compare the A51 PLUS an A21 (250wpc X 2).

Anyway, when someone wants to keep the products they purchase for a long time (Chris and I may be the only ones), why does it matter what the resell value will be? The only thing that will really matter is how the owner will like the product and how well the product fits the owners needs/wants.

How well will the owner like either of these products? Only he/she will be able to say that. Forum members can offer their opinions, but each "taste" is different.

How well will the product fit the owner's needs/wants? That's a little less subjective. If Chris is looking for power to "play it loud" and move the system to a future (assumed bigger) room, then he should really be looking at 200wpc or more... which would rule out the A52 because 125wpc (no matter who the manufacturer is) in a large room won't cut it if you like it loud. Do you want 7.1 or 5.1? For 5.1, you'll need an Outlaw 755 or a Halo A51. For 7.1, you'll need an Outlaw 770 or a Halo A51 PLUS a Halo A21. Using the 40% cost number thrown out earlier, that would be $3600 for the A51/A21 combo. The Outlaw 770 is $1800. Is the A51/A21 combo double the price of the Outlaw? My opinion (based on reading, I haven't heard the Outlaw... have heard the Halo) would be "no", unless you really love the sound of the Parasound and your budget can handle it. Either amp configuration will fill your "need", the pricing and "like" factor is up to you.

As far as the processor, if long life and upgradeability are the need, then there isn't much to think about other than price. The Halo C2 is the obvious choice... but at a premium. Again using the 40% figure, that would be $2,400 for the C2. The Outlaw 950 is $900 ($700 if you buy the Outlaw combo). Is the C2 worth $1,500 - $1,700 more than the 950? My opinion would be "yes" on the assumption that your budget can afford it.

 

[Ricky T]

Cees,

If the C52 is worth $1300 used, then that's 65% right? 1300/2000 = 65%.

Todd,

I don't think you can always use wattage specs between manufacturers. For example, the Parasound 1205A (arguably the C52's predecessor) tested at ~ 155x5. I'm not sure the Outlaw 770 does the full 200x7.. but even if it does a difference of 45 additional watts is less than 1dB and probably not audible.

Also, suppose Chris starts with the A52 at his ~ 1200 cost, then adds the 250x2 A21 later for ~ 1200 also. I think the A21 with its true dual-mono (one 1.2kVa power transformer per channel) design will outperform a 200x7 channel amps in terms of crosstalk reduction and total watts. The A21/A52 combo at the ~ 2400 cost isn't that much more than a 770 at $1800...and there's the "no denying" resale value difference that I illustrated. In this hobby where people constantly upgrade, I don't think one should underestimate the impact of resale value

 

[Cees Alons]

Ricky,

Ah I see. But according to me you need to use the real price anyone has to pay, which is, according to you $1700 (no one would calculate with a virtual list-price), so $1700 x 0.65 would be $1105 (or, at 60%: $1020). And $1300/$1700 = 0.7647 (> 76%).
I'm using your numbers of course.

Cees

 

[Ricky T]

And Todd, how much power you need is mostly dependent on the sensitivity of your speakers, you can't simply say "in a big room, 125 watts no matter what if you want it loud". People with 99dB high sensitivity Klipschs are probably only using 1-5 watts. I would take a 250x2 dual-mono amp with a ~ 155x5 5 channel amp over pretty much any 200x7 amp (B&K, Outlaw, etc). Better 2 channel performance and 7 channel power draw not limited to one power cord.

Futhermore on Parasound resale value. The 1205A now retails at $1199, but used prices are still about $750 or 50% of the original $1500 retail. Likewise, the 2205A retails at $1999, but used prices are still ~ $1250, or 50% of the original $2499 retail price.

 

[Ricky T]

Cees,

I never said that 60% applied to virtual list price. And the higher ~ 75% would apply to the Outlaw prices as there are no dealer discounts on new pricing.

You have to trust my knowledge on used prices; I can probably quote typical used prices for dozens of amp models. Is there anyone out there who can vouch that "Ricky Knows Used Prices"

 

[Todd_RIC]

I'm not sure what tested out at what and I certainly don't pretend to be an expert at any of this. Perhaps the Outlaw tested out higher than the specs as well??? Anyway, the 1205A was spec'd at 140wpc... not 125wpc like the A52. To assume the A52 will put out 155wpc is a heroic assumption. I still maintain that 125wpc is not enough to power a large theater room at high volumes. Of course, that is my opinion. Even if you add an A21 later, which 2channels are you going to power? Fronts? Won't do that much for your movie watching experience. 2 channels at 250wpc and 5 channels at 125wpc?

While I agree with you that many people in this hobby suffer from upgrade fever, Chris indicated that he was not so inclined... he wanted equipment that he could keep for a long time. Besides, can you really "upgrade" a Parasound Halo C2? If you can, it's way, way, way beyond my understanding and budget. Another consideration for him should be to look at the Adcom GFA-7807 amp... 300wpc X 7 with a street price of about $2,800... $800 less than the discounted Parasound A51/A21 combo for more power and less shelf space.

 

[Cees Alons]

You have to trust my knowledge on used prices..

You must be a salesman!

Cees

 

[John Tompkins]

Rickies been through so much equipment that he could open up a stereo shop..he knows used prices

 

[Chris_Bald]

Well, I think I'll go with the C2 and.......damn, I still can't decide on the A51 or 52. I sure would like the extra power, but I'm not sure if it is worth twice the price.

 

[Ricky T]

Chris,

With 89-90 dB speakers, I think 125+ parasound watts is plenty. You probably need to decide which 5+2 combo gives you the highest price/performance:

1) A51 225x5 + A23 125x2 (rear centers) at 4.9k retail or ~ $3k dealer cost

2) A52 125x5 + A21 250x2 at ~ 4k retail or 2.5k dealer cost

3) A52 125x5 + A23 125x2 at ~ 2.9k retail or 1.8k dealer cost

 

[Chris_Bald]

it is now offical, the c2 and a52 are on there way. i'm sure i'll be happy. anything would be better than what i'm sporting now. now i'll have to learn how to use the damn thing. seperates is a whole new world to me.

 

[Todd_RIC]

Congrats... you've definitely got some sweet equipment coming. I really hope everything works out for you.

 

[Chris_Bald]

just a couple of more things i'm curious about. do i need to go balanced outputs or is that over rated for my application? how about speaker wire? is 16g ok? do i need 12g? anything else you all think i'll need? thanks