Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability? (1 Viewer)

[Charles_Y]

I'm looking at Blu-Ray players in the new year having purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player (A35) last year. The upscaling on the Tosh was great and an important factor for me as my DVD collection is huge.

I guess I'm hooked and will bring Blu-Ray on board as well this year. I don't want a game system period so any support for the PS3 will fall on deaf ears here. From my research the Panasonic seems a good possibility. It's one of the first players with the Final Standard Profile (about time this format finalized something at last - ridiculous!). I have the Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver so bit-streamed DD, etc. will be decoded.

My question is how well does this player upscale standard DVDs? While we are at it also, how fast is the power up and response time on average?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Jamey K]

I'd like to know the same thing. If I'm going to get a BR player, and all the reviews on this Panny are glowing, I want to know how the upconvert looks...as compared to the Tosh A2?

 

[Todd H]

Its upscaling isn't bad and looks decent on my 50" SXRD @1080P. It's not as good as some of the REON players however.

I've owned both the BD30 and a PS3 and the BD30 loads just as fast as the PS3. Load speeds are extremely quick, even on Java titles.

 

[Chris PC]

What makes the BD30 better than the PS3? What video solution is the BD10 and BD30 using to output 1080p? How does it compare to the XA2's Reon chip and the DVDO solutions? A moot point for me, as I'll probably just output 1080i to my VP50.

Do either of the BD10 (10A?) or BD30 decode HD audio? DD True HD and DD+? DTS-HR and DTS-core from DTS MA? Can they output these PCM over HDMI?

 

[Dave H]

The BD30 and BD10 are using different chip solutions. The BD30 is only designed for bitstreaming advanced audio which means you need an HDMI receiver which will decode them.

Having compared the PS3 to the BD30 at 1080p/24, the BD30 does produce a slightly better BD picture.

As far as SD DVD upscaling, the BD30 is not very good. It's image is pretty sharp, but very noisey and non-smooth. Very "un-filmlike." In addition, it won't even pass one single test on the HQV benchmark disc.

I use the BD30 strictly for Blu-ray; however, I need to find a SD DVD solution - I'm keeping my eyes and ears on the new Oppo 983 which is coming out soon - it uses an ABT solution and should be quite a player.

 

[Chris PC]

So the BD30 does fine with 1080 Blu-Ray discs? How does the BD10 compare? How else do these players differ apart from the audio?

 

[Dave Moritz]

How well does the DMP-BD30K perform? Anyone here have this player hooked up to a HDMI 1.3 receiver that has Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA decoding? Has there been any problems with the advanced lossless codex being sent to the receiver? I currently am looking into another player to upgrade my current Sony BDP-S300 because it will not bitstream DTHD or DTS-HD MA. I am looking to upgrade the Blu-ray player after I buy my receiver, most likely the Denon AVR-3808ci. I am also considering the Denon DVD-2500BTCI Blu-ray Transport. But since it does not use a Realta HQV or Reon-HQV™ processor so I am revaluating if I am going to actually buy it or not. I am now considering the Panasonic DMP-BD30K as an alternate player.

I would apreciate hearing from anyone that has this player and uses it with a new receiver.

• How good does the video look via HDMI?
• Does the player properly bitstream Dolby True HD?
• Does the player properly bitstream DTS-HD Master Audio?
• How well does the player perform overall?

 

[Shane Martin]

Yes 7.1 DTS MA titles aren't recognized by the Denon models when sent bitstream. The other formats(Dolby True HD, and PCM) work fine.

I'm impressed with it myself. It properly bitstreams audio even 7.1(as long as you don't own a Denon). The video looks spectacular. The loading of discs is super speedy. If Denon releases a firmware update(or a fix) then it's a solid combination. Until then, you don't get DTS MA 7.1 which hurts a bit because Lionsgate and New Line are using that exclusively now. It know 7.1 DTS MA is seen correctly by an Onkyo and a Yamaha so clearly it's not a player fault.

The only player flaw is certain discs aren't not playing friendly with the player. Sunshine is an example.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Hey Shane,

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

Do you know how many discs do not play or have problems with the DMP-BD30K?

Since the Denon AVR-3808ci's firmware can be updated via it ethernet connection I fell its only a matter of time before Denon corrects it. Denon has a good reputation and I do not think it will take them long to correct the problem with the 7.1 DTS-HD MA decoding.

Also does anyone have the DMP-BD30K hooked up to the Onkyo TX-SR875? I am going to keep the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and the Onkyo TX-SR875 as alternate choices if I do not buy the Denon AVR-3808ci.

 

[Shane Martin]

I know Sunshine was one. I don't know about the others.

I'm currently testing a Yamaha RXV3800. It's quite nice but a bit too shrill sounding for my tastes and I don't care for the EQ much as it's limited to >60hz. It's a loaner so I can't complain for the time being. I'll have to go back to non-lossless soon as my friend will finally want it. He's building a theater and let me try out the 3800 since I'm in the market. The 875/905 are the 2 receivers I'm looking at. My friend has the 805 and the 875 uses the same amp section except it has a better scaler. Beyond that, the differences between the 875 and 805 are subtle. The only real knock on the 875 is the heat it generates. It's a non-issue for me but if you have a closed cabinet, you want to make sure it has good airflow otherwise it's better IMHO than the 3808. The scaler is way better and it has more power. Sound wise, it's a matter of opinion. Between those 4(including the Pioneer), it comes down to brand preference and which options you value the most. The scaler is more valuable to me so the 875 is what I'm leaning towards. The DTS MA 7.1 issue isn't hurting matters either.

 

[Tommy H]

I currently own the Panny BD30, Sony SXRD tv, and HD cable box and am in the market for a new receiver. Like most people I have considered the HK247 & 347, Onkyo 605, and Yamaha 659 & 661. To my understanding to get the benefit of the new DTHD and DTS-HD MA I would need a receiver that can decode HDMI 1.3...is this correct? Of the list of receivers I mentioned, the Onkyo is the only one that I am aware of that would do this but is my last choice for various reasons. I am leaning towards picking up the 659 now, as I can get a good deal on one, and then upgrading to a 1.3 HDMI receiver next year. Is there anything that I am misunderstanding or should be aware of? Thanks for all of the help.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Since we're off on a tangent now -- and nobody seems to have more to say about the original topic -- can someone tell me which A/V receivers (in the range of Onkyo 805) offer true direct bypass mode for analog audio sources along w/ preamp out?

Seems that the Onkyo 805 does not offer true direct bypass mode as the Secrets' review says "any and all digital audio processing is still very much alive". Oddly, according to the review, the 805 still won't offer (digital) bass management and time alignment since it doesn't "digitize the 5.1 analog input". So does that mean the digital audio sections are running, but just not doing anything for analog sources? At first, I thought he meant an A-to-D-to-A conversion is forced on all analog sources, but the last comment says otherwise.

Also, anyone know if it's possible for these receivers to downmix the various lossless formats to 4.0 output? I may just go ahead and finally add a matching center speaker, but I'm still not sure I want to add a sub considering my living space (and neighbors). I find my Vandersteen 2Ci's satisfying enough for handling whatever LFE that gets downmixed to them right now.

I'm thinking about using the Onkyo 805 to pass preamp out to my old B&K AV amp, and I'll probably run my Denon 2910's 5.1 output to it for hirez audio. Will be using the PS3 for BD/DVD playback for the forseeable future.

Thanks for any input on this...

_Man_

 

[Dave Moritz]

I am not sure I would go with the 805 I have been hearing about these ether catching fire or just going up in smoke. The 805 looks really nice and it supposedly puts out what it says it puts out power wise. But it runs really hot and you may not want a receiver that runs really hot.

I am currently looking into my next receiver and I have to save up for it. But the only two Onkyo's I will concider at this point is the TX-SR875 and the TX-NR905. They have the Reon HQV chip and it might be a good investment over the 805 that uses the Faroudja chip. I am also checking out the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and Denon AVR-3808ci receivers. If I had a nice budget I would get the Denon AVR-5308ci and add some nice high end power amps. But since I do have a budget it most likely will come down to ether the Denon AVR-3808ci or Onkyo TX-SR-875.

Onkyo:
TX-SR805 SRP$1,099
130 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 60A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling -
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 3 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

TX-SR875 SRP$1,699
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 65A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Reon (HQV)
1080p Upscaling Reon (HQV)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1

TX-SR905 SRP$2,099
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 70A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Reon (HQV)
1080p Upscaling Reon (HQV)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 2
Toridal Transformer

Yamaha:
RX-V3800 SRP$1,699.95
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response ?
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
Compressed Music Enhancer
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080i/1080p Silicon Optix (HQV) Scaler
HDMI V1.3 / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

Pioneer Elite:
VSX-94TXH SRP$1,600
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response ?
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Stream Direct
Room Calibration: Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

Denon:
AVR-3808ci SRP$1,599
130 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
Upgradeable to Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 2
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2

AVR4308ci SRP$2,499
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Advanced AL24 Processing - All Channels
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2

AVR5308ci SRP$5,200
150 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Advanced AL24 Processing - All Channels
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
Upgradeable to Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
480i to 480p Processing Realta HQV
1080p Upscaling Realta HQV scaling 1080p
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 6 / 2
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2
RS-232 (2)
Toroidal Power Transformer: 1 Main Toroid + 3 standard type sub transformers

I did recently check out the Panasonic DMP-BD30 the same day I was checking out the Denon AVR-3808ci and I really liked the picture on the BD30. If I do not buy the Denon DVD-2500 BT, I will definantly get the Panasonic.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Thing for me is, if I need to move up to the Onkyo 875 range, then I might as well go for the Integra 9.8 prepro (to pair w/ my B&K amp), no? Street price on the receiver might be a bit better, but probably not by enough to matter me thinks.

BTW, doesn't the 875 run just as hot as the 805? I don't use a closed rack/cabinet, so the extra space heater might not be so bad for me -- and the AC isn't too far away for the summer months either.

One other thing. Toward the end of the Secrets' review, it mentions that the 805 consumes a lot of power just for the "HDMI-Control" mode (even when powered off!). I wonder if that doesn't have something to do w/ all the complaints about the receiver running hot. Maybe it doesn't run so hot if that's turned off.

_Man_

 

[Dave Moritz]

One thing I have to say about the Onkyo 805 is for the price it does have alot of features. But all it would take is for just one to go up in smoke and I would be pissed. And since it does not have the Reon chip I might as well go with the Denon at that point.

I guess the Integra 9.8 prepro with a pair B&K amps would be nice to. It seems to have alot going for it as well.

Intergra DTC- 9.8 RSP $1,600
AUDIO PROCESSING:
• THX Ultra2 Certified
• Toroidal Transformer Plus 2 Separate Power Transformers for Audio & Video Processing
• HDMI (v.1.3a) Audio & Video Processing
• Audyssey MultiEQ XT Advanced Room Correction
• DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus Decoding
• Burr Brown 192khz/24-bit DACs for all channels
• Neural THX Surround Processing
• Three Advanced TI 32-Bit Processing DSP Chips
• Linear Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry
• VLSC - Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry - All Channels
• Bi-Amp Capability for Front L/R Channels
• IntelliVolume Input Level Calibration System
• 15-band Graphic Equalizer
• Variable Crossover Settings by Channel Pair
• Accurate Speaker Distance Settings (0.2 ft increments)
• A/V Sync Delay Adjustment by Input (up to 250ms)
VIDEO PROCESSING:
• HQV Reon-VX Processing for Premium Quality HDMI Upscaling/Transcoding of All Sources (up to 1080p)
•Deep Color™ (36 bit) Capable HDMI (4-in/2-out)
• HD Component Video (100 MHz) w/Upconversion
CONNECTIONS:
• 7.1 Channel Balanced Line Level XLR Outputs
• 2 Channel Balanced XLR Audio Input (assignable)
• 7.1 Multichannel Input & Pre-output
• XM® & SIRIUS Satellite Radio Ready [Required XM or SIRIUS tuner, antenna, and subscription sold separately.]
• HD Radio Reception Capability
• Assignable Digital Inputs (4 HDMI/3 optical/3 coaxial)
• HDMI/Component Video Assignable to Tape/CD/Phono
• 1 Optical Digital Output
• Front Panel A/V Inputs (including optical)
CUSTOM INTEGRATION FEATURES:
• Bi-directional Ethernet & RS-232 Port for 3rd Party Control Systems (Device Discovery, E-control, etc.)
• Fixed/Variable/Powered Zone 2w/ HD Component Video & Subwoofer Output
• Zone 2 Bass/Treble/Balance Controls
• Main Zone/2/3 & Zone 2 Max & Power On Volume Settings
• Dealer Settings Memory Store & Recall w/Lock/Unlock
• Permanently Stored Memory Settings
• Dual IR Inputs w/Common Output
• 3 Programmable 12V triggers (w/adj. delay)
• RIHD for System Control via HDMI
• Optional Rack Mount Kit Available (IRK-155-3A)

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I think maybe I just need Outlaw (or perhaps Rotel) to come out w/ a prepro for my needs.

_Man_

 

[Pete T C]

i have the Panasonic and the Toshiba, and the Panasonic is notably worse than the Toshiba in upscaling. It just looks less HD-like and more like you are watching upconverted DVD. If you use a VP for deinterlacing with the Panny it helps things a bit though.

 

[TonyTone]

Unless the build quality/looks/reputation of the Denon are important factors to you, and/or you can purchase one for a great price--I'd suggest (IMHO, of course) you go w/ the Panny BD30, if you had to choose between it and the Denon; from what I've read elsewhere, the performance of both units are quite comparable. Not only that, they both also share the same PCM/LFE bug (where LFE on uncompressed PCM tracks output via HDMI is -5dB lower than the other channels).

 

[Dave Moritz]

Thanks for the input Tony, I am going to take a wait and see approach regaurding the Denon. My primary focus right now is saving up for a new receiver. And I still have to actually choose the receiver I am going to buy. So after that is all done and behind me, that is when I will focus on upgrading my Blu-ray player. I will have to save up for that as well. But I could very well end up with a Pioneer Elite receiver and Blu-ray player, you never know what will happen? I am leaning towards the Denon 3808ci so far with the Integra 7.8 in a very close second. I am still looking to check out the Onkyo 875 with the Reon scaler, but I have to admit that the heat issue concerns me. IMHO heat will most likely end up shortening the life of the 875 and I can not see it lasting 11+ years like my Yamaha RX-V995.

I am very impressed with the picture quality of the Panasonic DM30K and it could very well end up being my next Blu-ray player. I have to admit that I am pushing the budget envelope getting the Denon. But the goal is to have the best performance for the money. The Panasonic would look great sitting under a Denon or Integra receiver. I just need to save the money so I can actually buy the gear.

 

[TonyTone]

Dave--LOL @ your "Panasonic looking great sitting under a Denon" comment...I have both a BD30 and a 3808ci, but in my setup the BD30 is sitting above the 3808. Yes, ideally it should be the other way around (I went w/ the "heavier devices on the bottom" placement concept) but my low-profile A/V cabinet has an open back and both A/V devices are separated by a fairly-thick wooden shelf, so I'm not too concerned about too much radiated heat from the 3808 hitting the BD30.

The Onkyo 875 is indeed an attractive option, feature-wise--if anything, because of the Reon chip; I don't remember if the 875 had the same lip-sync issues that other folks alluded to w/ the 705 and 805 models but I do know that these issues did scare some folks away from the Onkyo and towards the Denon 3808.

Back to the Panny BD30--for some folks, the lack of a fix for the PCM LFE issue (last I heard is that Panny won't offer a fix because they consider the 5db drop to be within normal specifications or something along those lines) is a deal-killer...to the point that those folks who are still in their return period have stated that they will return their BD30 units. It goes w/o saying that it's up to you to decide if you still wish to go w/ the BD30. Then again, you could just tell yourself to go for broke and just go w/ the Denon 3800BDCI instead (note--the 2500 has no analog outs...dunno if that's important to you), which I've yet to see anyone state that it too has the same LFE bug that afflicts the Denon 2500 and Panny BD30.