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Panic Room - Is it Truely Superbit (1 Viewer)

Robert Harris

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The quality of a digital video release must initially be based upon the quality of the original transfer from film, which in turn is based upon the available/selection of a high quality film element.

However, a beautiful transfer can be either destroyed or come to us as reference quality by its handling in compression.

There is no doubt in my mind that, albeit in different packaging, Panic Room IS a SuperBit release.

The fact is that Sony has offered it at as a SuperBit ONLY release at a sell though street price of under $20...

AND that the release has some additional track information on it, which takes up very little real estate...

I am simply confounded that I'm seeing disgruntled comments because the release doesn't fit into a pre-determined totally stripped format which can be predicated by either the film's length or a combination of length, detail and movement within the frames.

I'll repeat.

This is a 112 minute film on a double layer disc, capable and designed to hold 270 minutes of compressed information.

Film doesn't lie!

It doesn't matter what compression numbers happen to be, the final analysis is what is on screen, and this release -- against all odds, because of the difficult values inherent in its production -- is beautiful.

Re: compression...

Some shots do not need to register more than 3.5 - 4 to look fully developed on your screen. Others need a faster bit flow and less compression.

I did a full comparison of Patriot. While the original release, which was quite beautiful in its own right, had a transfer range in the mid 3s to the high 8s and low 9s, its SuperBit incarnation works within a range starting in the mid 4s and going to a full 10.

And the difference in overall resolution, within those scenes which are affected is MAJOR. In general scenes, for which a higher rate was not a necessity, it is much less obvious, or of no higher quality.

In Panic Room, it is more what you DON'T see than what you do, that makes the difference is viewing pleasure based upon a higher overall resolution.

The best that I can do is to suggest viewing the film on VHS to get some concept of precisely how noisy this film might have looked. It is only because there is no non SB release that the transfer is calling attention to itself, but going along with Sony's edict for quality transfers AND the fact that this film was only 112 minutes, gave them the ability to do a general release in SB.

Have other companies released films with a high bit rate?

Certainly.

But Sony created this as a signature product of high quality, using the trade term "SuperBit." In releasing Panic Room as such, the studio is simply allowing the audience to know that while this is not being offered as a premium priced product, that it fits within the guidelines of a certain quantifiable quality upon which the audience should be able to rely.

The fact is that ALL films under a certain number of minutes could be released in a SB format with much lower compression.
However, most people who know what they're viewing wouldn't be happy with them.

Why?

As mentioned at the start of this note, the final product is a combination of transfer and compression... and finally authoring.

Although Panic Room can fit easily (space-wise) on a multi-layered disc with additional track information, it would not be a viable SB title had the transfer not be of equally superior quality.

This is why many titles which COULD be released with a high bit transfer rate are not.

The film elements and tranfer quality must both be of high enough value or the SB compression or whatever another studio might wish to call it...

WILL MAKE THE FINAL PRODUCED DVD LOOK WORSE.

As all of the transfer flaws will begin to show.

What Sony has created via their SB label is a viable working example of what THX might have and should have been, but never became as a confused audience never understood what it was. The fact that it was sold as a product of higher quality was a misnomer, created via poorly thought out marketing. THX merely meant that the recording hardware was working at a certain index...

and had nothing to do with the quality of the final product.

Sony, in marketing their SuperBit tradename has created and IS DELIVERING a higher quality product, albeit one which has its greatest value when played back on the high quality systems which most of you enjoy.

RAH
 

Ruz-El

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I too thank you for your time Mr. Harris. I think the last thing any of us expected in this thread is a lesson on digital transfers, so I am thrilled that you took the time to lend your expertise to this cause.

I for one would like to vote that this be your next topic in your "Digital Bits" series of posts, as there is alot of confusion on this subject.

My question is now this: Many of the SuperBit line are re-releases of older/first Gen catalog DVD titles. I'm wondering if in the case of Panic Room if there would of been that big a difference in the transfer if it came out as the Special Edition (as announced) first. Again, I've never bought super bit before because I enjoy the extras, and have not been disgusted enough in a transfer to warrant re-buying a title.
 

Bryant Trew

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This doesn't look as good as other Superbits to me. It doesn't even look as good as other movies which aren't even superbit.
 

Thomas T

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Thanks Mr. Harris! I agree that Panic Room looks simply stunning. I'm just guessing that the naysayers never saw Panic Room in theatres. I saw it in a state of the art theatre in a pristine print and the DVD looks every bit as good as it did at the cinema. I can't imagine it looking any better without compromising the director's original intended look.
 

Jeff Kleist

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Exactly. So many people say a transfer isn't great unless it's had every hint of grain DVNRd out of it, and this looks exactly as I remember it

Thank you for your time Mr. Harris
 

Kevin M

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My Sony displays the bit rate during playback and I noticed the movie barely crept above the "5" line which is average for most titles.
I could have sworn my Dracula SuperBit (the only one I own) never dipped below 7 or 8.
I also noticed this when looking at the bit rate, it hovered between 5 and 6 for almost the entire film, far below any other "Superbit" title I have seen so far.
Don't get me wrong, it really does have a beautiful transfer IMO, but (with all respect to Mr. Harris) I'll be damned if it is a true "Superbit" disc.
 

Andy_MT

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i think we're being a bit too hard on columbia here. lies and deceit from a major studio ... i won't hear of it. i say we get an impartial opinion on this issue. we should get david manning to review the disc ;)
 

Adam Barratt

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I actually got around to watching this disc today, and I have to say I thought it looked and sounded fantastic. I'm baffled by the suggestions this transfer is in any way sub-par.

Adam
 
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I think a lot depends on whether your display device is properly color calibrated or not. I watched this movie about 3 weeks ago with an uncalibrated projector and thought it looked quite bad. Since then I've had my projector calibrated to D65 and Panic Room looks considerably better!

This is one movie that will really suffer if your colors are in the least bit off and correct brightness/contrast settings are vital in pulling out the detail thats in there at just the right levels.

Paul
 

Dave H

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I respectfully disagree with Mr. Harris about this being a real Superbit. This was originally announced as a SE - and looking at the menus and disc, etc., it is very "un-Superbit-like." I saw Panic Room in the theater and I don't think this disc represents it properly. No, Panic Room DVD is not a bad transfer - it is good. But, it is not AS good as it should have been. Considering nearly ALL Superbits are reference or near reference quality - and Panic Room isn't - makes me confident that this disc was never treated like or done like a Superbit. I own several Superbits (Dracula, The Patriot, Zorro) and they are in a different class.

My TV is ISF'd, as well.
 

Steve Schaffer

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I've had this for weeks now and finally got around to watching it last night.

I'd been messing with my brightness control a bit in the last few weeks so did a quick AVIA check before running it.

The vast majority of this film is so dark that correct brightness settings and an almost totally dark viewing room are extremeley important.

It's been my experience that dark movies almost always look grainier than those with lots of daylight scenes, having to do more with filmstock and lighting conditions during photography than dvd transfer quality.

It's also been my experience that some displays have a harder time with dark movies than brighter ones.
I can't think of another Superbit title as consistently dark as this one, so don't think fair comparisons to other titles in the superbit line can necessarily be made.
Percieved poorer picture quality could very easily have much more to do with the original photography or the display's ability to render shadow detail than the quality of the transfer.

The picture quality of Panic Room on my only mildly tweaked Sony KP57HW40 and Panny CP72 player was better than comparably dark scenes in most any other dvd I've watched.

I don't pretend to have the technical expertise to judge whether or not this is a "true" superbit title, and perhaps this post is misplaced because of that, but I do think the dvd looks pretty darn good.
 

Lee_eel

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Well, i have to defend Superbit. I have watched Desperado and Charlie's Angels (R2) on a 28 inch tv and did notice a difference compared to my old copies. The picture was generally sharper and the backgrounds were rock solid with great detail. I have a major problem with moving backgrounds (break-up) so i suppose i am just fussy!
 

JeremyFr

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I own this disc to, the one thing I hate about my DVD player is no bit rate meter. At anyrate I thought it looked pretty good but it is a bit disturbing to read this thread. My thinking here though is that bit rate will be lower with darker scenes due to lack of color vs. say an outside shot of a field of tulips or something. And since most of this movie was pretty dark and not very colorful the bitrate would be lower. this is my understanding of mpeg2 encoding that I've always noticed that the more color and motion the higher the bitrate. Take mpeg4 (divx) files for example, typically a full length movie will take up 650MB's or a whole CD now when I downloaded Clerks which is an entirely black & white movie it was only 300MB's it had the same picture quality of any other DIVX file but was much smaller due to no color information, so I'd imagine this being the same for any type digital video compression.
 

Dan Hitchman

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I still don't think this was a true SuperBit title. It is in name only, but it deviates completely from the stated purpose of the SuperBit catalog on all the other releases thus far (and those coming out soon).

Dan
 

Rob Tomlin

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I started noticing the same problems I notice in other Sony releases mostly the mosquito noise that pops up in darker scenes.
This is the problem that I noticed throughout the darker scenes (which is obviously the majority of the movie). I thought the detail and colors were fine, but the mosquito noise was very distracting. I am using a progressive scan DVD player with a Mitsu HDTV (ISF'ed).
 

RobD

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If it is true that an 11mb limit is in place which includes all sound and video tracks, wouldn't a higher quality product be possible if the dolby digital track was not present?
 

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