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PAL JOEY possible sync issue?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Chuck Pennington, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    I just got the Twilight Time PAL JOEY Blu-ray, and it really looks terrific. The isolated score track sounds a bit hollow, but I haven't really listened to much of it. I was skipping around to view the musical numbers when I noticed that "The Lady is a Tramp" appears to be out-of-sync. The sound looks to be maybe 5 or 6 frames ahead of the video, as Frank is noticeably off sync throughout the number. Granted, it has been years since I viewed the DVD and the higher resolution of Blu might reveal things more clearly than before, but can someone else check out this number on their disc and tell me if they see the same thing? The lip sync continues to be off into the next scene when Rita takes Frank onto her yacht (just for the beginning of the scene with a lot of looped dialogue-the problem appears to correct itself).
     
  2. GMpasqua

    GMpasqua Well-Known Member

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    there is no sync issue in the film print, it may be in the blu-ray transfer. Sinatra was very good at lip sync in his films
     
  3. Guest

    It looks okay on my Panasonic BD-60. The song begins at 51:44 if someone else wants to check.
     
  4. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    The 5.1 track is the one where I'm really noticing it, and it happens again during "Bewitched..." The 2.0 track is fine, but the 5.1 on that song has audio that seems a few frames ahead of the picture. I don't remember the lip synching in this film to be bad at all. I am viewing the Blu on a new Sony player I got just before Christmas. The dialog seems largely dead on in synch, but these two songs concern me.
     
  5. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    Check out 54:05 ("Won't dish the dirt with all the other girls..."). The audio (at least on the 5.1 track) appears WAY ahead of the video and continues that way for a bit for me. I hope it isn't my player, but the dialog scenes I have viewed are fine.
     
  6. Guest

    I got out the PAL JOEY DVD (from the Kim Novak Collection) and looked at the scene. It appears to me the same as the Blu-ray. I also checked the Blu-ray on my projector, which is hooked up to a different Panasonic BD player - no problem...sync looks good. I made sure it was on the 5.1 track as well. I just checked out BEWITCHED and it looks fine on my gear.
     
  7. haineshisway

    haineshisway Well-Known Member

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    Synch problems are rarely the fault of the transfer and sound, and usually (but not always) the fault of the player - I don't know enough about these things, but sometimes when you're skipping around there is lag time or something. But these complaints usually are player related as can be seen from other posts here who are having no problem.
     
  8. marsnkc

    marsnkc Well-Known Member

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    That's happened sometimes when fast forwarding or reversing on my standard DVD player. Never had a problem when chapter jumping, nor any so far on my Oppo BD player.
     
  9. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Well-Known Member
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    I've been watching my DVD of Pal Joey in bits and pieces over the last few days trying to decide if I like the movie enough to upgrade to Blu-ray, and there have been no synch issues on the DVD, and I've watched all of those songs (and also "Zip" and "I Didn't Know What Time It Was," my two favorite numbers in the movie). Of course, the DVD only offers Dolby 2.0.


    BTW, it appears that Sinatra is singing the first part of "I Didn't Know What Time It Was" live and then begins lip synching when the number turns jazzy. I had never noticed that before.
     
  10. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    It isn't like the audio is a second or more ahead - we're talking maybe 5 or 6 frames. Some people may not notice it if they aren't sensitive to such things, but I have done a lot of editing and synching of sound so it sticks out to me. It doesn't stick out as much on the 2.0 track. And the problem isn't during the entire film. I'm going to use my Blu drive on my computer to check I out there and then report back. The isolated score track is strange. I expected the vocals to be present, but they have a faraway, foggy quality. I wonder how this track was assembled. I haven't checked out any of the scenes with underscoring to check out the isolated music track yet. ****ADDED 2/24/12 **** "Zip" has no vocals on the isolated score track, but all of the other songs do have vocals, albeit in a somewhat diminished fashion. The video transfer is GORGEOUS! Flesh tones are natural, and shadows that once were reddish or bluish now look far more balanced. There is no comparison between this Blu and the old DVD from the late '90s. This appears to be the same transfer that was used for the Kim Novak set in 2010 on DVD, but now it is in high definition and just looks beautiful. The sound is good too, it's just that some parts of some songs look out of sync to me...
     
  11. GMpasqua

    GMpasqua Well-Known Member

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    My disc arrived yesterday but I haven't had a chance to view it. Maybe tomorrow I can get to it and let you know if there is a problem on my player
     
  12. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    There is one entire reel of LET'S MAKE LOVE that is out-of-sync on the DVD and was never fixed. I'll get out the disc and figure out the time codes for you to check, if interested. I agree that most sync issues are player-related, but to say that they don't occur during the transfer process is not correct, especially if individual scenes are remixed or altered (check out the "I Enjoy Being a Girl" number on the FLOWER DRUM SONG DVD - out of sync on the 5.1 track, but IIRC in sync on the 2.0 track).
     
  13. Chuck Pennington

    Chuck Pennington Well-Known Member

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    Here are some images direct from the Blu-ray disc. I believe they are downscaled from 1920x1080 when I post them here, but hopefully you guys can see how gorgeous it is. :) [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Well-Known Member
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    These shots do make it look sensational and clearly superior to the DVD I've been sampling this week.
     
  15. benbess

    benbess Well-Known Member

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    wow!
     
  16. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    5-6 frames would be Huge. My dog notices issues at around 6 perfs, and howls.
     
  17. Italo

    Italo Member

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    Just got my Blu today, will test in on my rig and report back. Thanks for the screenshots Chuck, Hayworth and Novak look dazzling...
     
  18. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?

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    Italo I was just about to welcome you to HTF but then I noticed you have been around for EIGHT years. How about welcome back. Have you picked up any other TT blu-rays in addition to Pal Joey?
     
  19. Robin9

    Robin9 Well-Known Member

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    "clearly superior" is a major understatement. Chuck Pennington's caps give a good representation of what this BRD looks like on my ten foot wide screen. I watched it last night through headphones and I didn't notice any synch problems. Mind you, I'm not interested in 5.1 sound on a movie recorded in mono so I can't speak for that soundtrack. The picture quality is really good; in places almost too good. We can see clearly that Columbia - as nearly always - put too much rouge on Rita Hayworth's face and that Rita and Kim have very slight skin blemishes. I'm very pleased with this Blu-ray disc.
     
  20. Italo

    Italo Member

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    Hi Tony, just picked up Picnic and Pal joey, been waiting for these to come to Blu for awhile, Twilight Time is going to get a bit of my custom if they keep releasing quality releases of this caliber. Yes I've been around for awhile, I usually just enjoy the erudite discussions rather than the slanging matches on other forums, rather refreshing. @ Chuck checked the Pal Joey disc on my Oppo 83 player, yes there are sync issues on 'The lady is a tramp' number but I actually think it's Sinatra missing the cues rather than the soundtrack being off. For example towards the end where just before he circles Hayworth he's dead on cue, then he's off sync and then he's back on cue again, so I don't think it's an encoding fault. Sinatra being Sinatra, George Sydney probably didn't dare ask for another take ;-) Generally the disc looks very good, print is very clean and colours are spot on but there is a slight lack of definition even in close ups, guessing it looks to me to either be from a lower definition master or maybe it's a second/third generation print, I leave it to better informed members to speculate. Pity about special features as this would have really benefitted from a full commentary, especially since Novak is still around.
     

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