Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28 (1 Viewer)

[Tony Bensley]

Hi Richard!


I actually found a second listing for Volume 6 on Amazon Canada with a $25.93 price tag. Still pricey, in my opinion, but a lot better than $853!


The downside is the Canadian Merchant that's carrying this won't ship it to the U.S, at least not via Amazon. I know this, because the fellow who posted about Volume 6's sudden unavailability in the first place tried to order it, but was defeated at the checkout stage!


Crazy stuff!


CHEERS!


Tony


P.S. For interested Canucks, here's the Amazon Canada link: http://www.amazon.ca/Little-Rascals-Vol-Vivendi-Entertainment/dp/B00UGPR0G6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1450242569&sr=1-3-fkmr0&keywords=little+rascals+volume+6

I did google the sellers, JnP Store Canada. Unfortunately, ALL links appear to be via Amazon Canada, only!


For international buyers, the only way around it that I see, is to have the Little Rascals, Volume 6 DVD would be to have it shipped to a Canadian Address, and then have that person ship to them!


Frankly, given the price, if I were a U.S. buyer, I'd more likely just order the 8 DVD set, warts and all! At least, I'd also have the option of obtaining a proper (I'm assuming!) version of "The Pinch Singer" via Amazon digital download. In my opinion, it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be more cost effective!


CHEERS!

 

[Radioman970]

So is archive.org still the best way to watch the silents?


My fav rascal btw is Farina. It's crazy watching him being moved around from scene to scene as a baby.. .

 

[Tony Bensley]

So is archive.org still the best way to watch the silents?


My fav rascal btw is Farina. It's crazy watching him being moved around from scene to scene as a baby.. .

Hi James!


Unfortunately, since plans to release more of the extant 'Our Gang' silents fell through awhile back, online options seem to be where it's at!


There are also some Pathe silents (Which, I believe are all Public Domain) on YouTube.


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

Tony,


I agree in that the item is still a bit pricey but not as insane as someone paying over 800 bucks for a DVD of some shorts, but getting the entire 8 DVD set would be the utilization of the common sense approach in attaining this series but nowadays, some people just have to have certain stuff, no matter what the pricetag might entail.

Hi Richard!


The frustrating aspect regarding the RHI sets, is the having to either; 1) Buy the 2008 RHI/Genius 8 DVD set, in which a full 1/5 of the 80 Hal Roach Talkies use the replaced Blackhawk Titles, in order to get the Bonus DVD which, by most accounts, is a Treasure Trove; 2) Buy the 7 mostly corrected RHI/Vivendi DVDs that were individually issued in 2011, but be stuck with not being able to get the Bonus DVD, or 3) Fork over extra $$ to do both options!


Of course, the recent development regarding the individual Little Rascals Volume 6 RHI/Vivendi DVD, makes the second and third options a more dicey proposition!


What influenced me to go with option #2 back in 2012 was that, not only did a significant chunk of the 'Our Gang' shorts use the replacement Blackhawk Films Title cards, but these were reputed to have been derived from 16mm Film stock, rather than the superior 35mm Film that was used for the shorts with the original Titles; however, I've read more recently that the RHI/Genius Blackhawk Titled versions deriving from 16mm Film wasn't necessarily correct!


Anyway, in my opinion, it's too bad that a choice is even necessary, but so it goes! Despite not having the 8th disc, overall I'm very happy with what I do have, especially that Volume 6 DVD!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

From what I've observed, since the 7 Little Rascals Revised Volumes were issued by RHI/Vivendi in 2011, the main sticking point has involved the 8th Bonus DVD, which is available only on the 2008 RHI/Genius 8 DVD set of THE LITTLE RASCALS: THE COMPLETE COLLECTION.


The way I see it, the problem is twofold:


1) That despite the correcting of the first 7 volumes for the later RHI/Vivendi pairing, the complete 8 volume set by RHI/Genius Entertainment (Who went bankrupt not long after the 2008 set was released!) was never recalled, and to this day, STILL contains the 16 Blackhawk Titles within the first 7 DVD volumes!


2) That, for whatever reason, RHI/Vivendi never individually issued the Volume 8 Bonus DVD. While I get that restoring the 3 Blackhawk Titled silents that were included wasn't part of their mandate, it really would have been nice to have the option of purchasing this volume separately, as well!


I have some questions in regards to some possible cause/s of the above situation:


- Did the bankruptcy of the Genius Entertainment Distribution Company somehow prevent the complete sets from having any revision done on them?


- Did release rights issues on any of the content on the 8th Bonus DVD prevent RHI/Vivendi from being able to release it on it's own, or did they simply not opt in on issuing it, whether it was because they didn't work on revising any of the content, or for whatever other reason?


Another question that I have is just how many of these uncorrected RHI/Genius complete sets remain on the market? I consider this question to be especially relevant, since the individual RHI/Vivendi Volume 6 DVD that was issued more than 2 years AFTER the complete collection has suddenly become rather scarce! Are other Little Rascals RHI/Vivendi Volumes soon to follow suit?


Any thoughts regarding the above?


CHEERS!

 

[LouA]

Amazing how something that should be simple turns into a complex endeavor . What was available on the original box set ( which luckily I have ) should all be available on the new individual releases only in improved quality /completeness. (Operative word :SHOULD!)

 

[Tony Bensley]

Amazing how something that should be simple turns into a complex endeavor . What was available on the original box set ( which luckily I have ) should all be available on the new individual releases only in improved quality /completeness. (Operative word :SHOULD!)

Hi Lou!


While I agree with you regarding that principle, I have some theories as to why that never came to pass, in this case:


- That RHI's post Genius Entertainment era mandate was to correct only the Blackhawk Titled Rascals shorts that were within the 80 Hal Roach sound shorts. Because the late MGM silents that were on the 8th Bonus Disc weren't a part of that mandate, it wasn't included amongst the 2011 RHI/Vivendi Little Rascals Reissues.


- That, in the post Genius Entertainment era, RHI no longer had release rights to the 'Our Gang' MGM silents, and therefore, could not include the 8th Bonus DVD, revised or otherwise. That said, in my opinion, an explanation as to why the 8th Bonus DVD wasn't included in the 2011 RHI/Vivendi Little Rascals reissues would have been nice!


Furthermore, in a less imperfect world, it is my opinion TLR Complete Collection set should also have at the very least, had the affected DVDs within the first 7 Volumes replaced with the revised versions! Unfortunately, I tend to believe it's the fact that the RHI/Genius tandem no longer exists that prevented any chance of this ever coming to pass! Again, in my opinion, an explanation by RHI as to why this didn't happen would have been appreciated!


Short of choosing both the Complete Collection set and the individual volumes, each of these options fall short, unfortunately!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[[email protected]]

Anyone know the quality of the Our Gang titles from Legend Films?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Anyone know the quality of the Our Gang titles from Legend Films?

Hi William!


Apart from from posted screenshots an a few clips, I haven't really seen much of the Legend 'Our Gang' titles. Based on that and most posts I've read seem to indicate that they're of at least decent quality, though at least for the most part, a variety of reissue title cards are used in place of the originals. Also, some, but not all of the Legend Films 'Our Gang' DVDs are colorized (IIRC, the color on these appeared to look decent enough), though I believe that even those have a Black & White option.


Here is list of the Black & White only Legend DVDs (As Originally posted by Grand Shark on "The Laurel & Hardy Forum"):

THE BOYS OF OUR GANG
Little Daddy (Erko titles, freeze-framed with jump cuts)
Birthday Blues (see above)
Honkey Donkey (Official)
Fishy Tales (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Pay As You Exit (Official)
Monkey Business (Original Pathe titles) (Silent, no score)

CLASSIC & HIDDEN EPISODES
Big Ears (Erko titles, freeze-framed with jump cuts)
Lazy Days (No lion, M-G-M logos erased from original titles)
Free Eats (Official)
Fish Hooky (Official)
Mush And Milk (See "Big Ears")
The Fourth Alarm! (Original titles, silent with no score)

THE PIRATES OF OUR GANG
Shiver My Timbers (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Mama's Little Pirate (Interstate)
Three Men In A Tub (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Buried Treasure (Silent with music)
Derby Day (Silent with no score)
Our Gang Follies Of 1938 (Original titles with no lion)

SCARY SPOOKTACULAR
Spooky Hooky (King World)
Moan And Grown (Allied, cuts to Official)
First Roundup (Interstate)
Little Sinner (Allied)
Sundown Ltd. (Exclusive) (Silent, no score)
Bear Shooters (Original titles with no M-G-M lion)


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[LouA]

Hi William!


Apart from from posted screenshots an a few clips, I haven't really seen much of the Legend 'Our Gang' titles. Based on that and most posts I've read seem to indicate that they're of at least decent quality, though at least for the most part, a variety of reissue title cards are used in place of the originals. Also, some, but not all of the Legend Films 'Our Gang' DVDs are colorized (IIRC, the color on these appeared to look decent enough), though I believe that even those have a Black & White option.


Here is list of the Black & White only Legend DVDs (As Originally posted by Grand Shark on "The Laurel & Hardy Forum"):

THE BOYS OF OUR GANG
Little Daddy (Erko titles, freeze-framed with jump cuts)
Birthday Blues (see above)
Honkey Donkey (Official)
Fishy Tales (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Pay As You Exit (Official)
Monkey Business (Original Pathe titles) (Silent, no score)

CLASSIC & HIDDEN EPISODES
Big Ears (Erko titles, freeze-framed with jump cuts)
Lazy Days (No lion, M-G-M logos erased from original titles)
Free Eats (Official)
Fish Hooky (Official)
Mush And Milk (See "Big Ears")
The Fourth Alarm! (Original titles, silent with no score)

THE PIRATES OF OUR GANG
Shiver My Timbers (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Mama's Little Pirate (Interstate)
Three Men In A Tub (Interstate, cuts to Official)
Buried Treasure (Silent with music)
Derby Day (Silent with no score)
Our Gang Follies Of 1938 (Original titles with no lion)

SCARY SPOOKTACULAR
Spooky Hooky (King World)
Moan And Grown (Allied, cuts to Official)
First Roundup (Interstate)
Little Sinner (Allied)
Sundown Ltd. (Exclusive) (Silent, no score)
Bear Shooters (Original titles with no M-G-M lion)


CHEERS!


Tony

There's also a Pete The Pup volume . All feature black and white options for the films that are colorized , and the quality is pretty good . I look at these releases as being supplemental to the RHI Box Set. I read somewhere that Legend was releasing a box set . I can't find any info on it . Legend hasn't released much new product of any type lately .

 

[[email protected]]

Hey, thanks for all the detailed info. Really appreciate it.

 

[LouA]

Speaking of Little Rascals, that film from 1985 narrated by Jerry Lewis called Rascal Dazzle just popped up on Youtube as it's been almost 20 years since i saw that thing. Not a bad documentary.

I remember really enjoying that when it played on TV back in the 80's .You could tune into regular TV channels back then and see things like Hey Abbott, and the Youngson Laurel And Hardy films . Sadly documentaries like Rascal Dazzle and the other ones I mentioned have pretty much disappeared from view .

 

[Brent Reid]

The "single layer" issue earlier in this thread was never clarified. Are the 2008 RHI/Genius DVDs single or dual layer and what of the (mostly) fixed 2011 RHI/Vivendi reissues? Are there any compression defects with either?

To further clarify, do all seven of the Vivendi DVDs improve on their Genius counterparts? That is, apart from Moan and Groan, Inc. with its newly introduced instability issues?

In other words, the best available region 1 set of those shorts would be the seven Vivendi discs alongside the Genius extras disc, correct?

Does anyone know if the German Die kleinen Strolche DVDs from StudioCanal also bodged the transfers or did they use the correct ones? Do they contain the same shorts and extras as the US DVDs?

 

[Tony Bensley]

For those who still wish to obtain all 7 Revised and Reissued "The Little Rascals" RHI/Vivendi DVDs, Volume 6 in particular, The Niles Essanay Silent Film Museum only has one copy left, after which they cannot restock it! Furthermore, Paul Mular (Essanay Paul on HTF) has stated it's his understanding that Volumes 4 and 5 are also no longer available, though Amazon and the aforementioned Museum still have some of those two volumes in stock.

CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

The "single layer" issue earlier in this thread was never clarified. Are the 2008 RHI/Genius DVDs single or dual layer and what of the (mostly) fixed 2011 RHI/Vivendi reissues? Are there any compression defects with either?

To further clarify, do all seven of the Vivendi DVDs improve on their Genius counterparts? That is, apart from Moan and Groan, Inc. with its newly introduced instability issues?

In other words, the best available region 1 set of those shorts would be the seven Vivendi discs alongside the Genius extras disc, correct?

Does anyone know if the German Die kleinen Strolche DVDs from StudioCanal also bodged the transfers or did they use the correct ones? Do they contain the same shorts and extras as the US DVDs?

Hi Brent!

I can't speak for the 2008 RHI/Genius release insofar as any single layer issues, but I can reassure you the 2011 RHI/Vivendi reissued DVDs are all dual layered! So far as I can tell, these don't present any noticeable compression issues.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the Volume 4-6 RHI/Vivendi discs are no longer available, so if you want these, I strongly recommend acting quickly, if possible! In my opinion, it sucks that these are going out of print, while the complete somewhat botched RHI/Genius DVD sets are still available, but it is what it is!

Overall, the RHI/Vivendi reissues are a huge improvement over the previous RHI/Genius release, with a few very minor caveats, like the one you mentioned regarding MOAN & GROAN, INC. One that comes to mind, is the use of the wrong Musical Opening/Original Titles for A TOUGH WINTER on the 2011 reissued RHI/Vivendi set, which is opposite to the Original Music/Blackhawk Titles!

There's some posts about the German DVD release of 14 MGM silents at Nitrateville.com. Apparently, German translation titles are embedded at the bottom of the original English intertitles: http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?t=2234

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Brent Reid]

Re the colorized and B&W Legend releases: I've got several of the (I think) seven DVDs they released, as well as their lone BD. I'm not overly picky where PD releases are concerned (and these are among the best Our Gang ones available) but some of their prints are pretty terrible and the colorization is correspondingly bad. The print quality simply doesn't warrant it but Legend clearly chose to release everything they had access to.

However, conversely it appears that Legend only transferred the best condition shorts to the BD, so it’s more than watchable all the way through. If you're considering picking the Legend discs up I'd suggest starting with that one.

Thanks for your answer, Tony. It gets ever more complicated though. Are you saying that Vivendi's A Tough Winter is worse than the one in the Genius set?

I've bought these films so many times - and that's just the DVDs. Now it looks as though I'll be unable to resist buying the seven reissue discs, the rest of the Legends (for otherwise missing silents), and maybe even the 8-DVD German set! What a mess. Still, much like the Laurel and Hardys, we should be grateful they actually exist at all, when so many others are lost forever.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Re the colorized and B&W Legend releases: I've got several of the (I think) seven DVDs they released, as well as their lone BD. I'm not overly picky where PD releases are concerned (and these are among the best Our Gang ones available) but some of their prints are pretty terrible and the colorization is correspondingly bad. The print quality simply doesn't warrant it but Legend clearly chose to release everything they had access to.

However, conversely it appears that Legend only transferred the best condition shorts to the BD, so it’s more than watchable all the way through. If you're considering picking the Legend discs up I'd suggest starting with that one.

Thanks for your answer, Tony. It gets ever more complicated though. Are you saying that Vivendi's A Tough Winter is worse than the one in the Genius set?

I've bought these films so many times - and that's just the DVDs. Now it looks as though I'll be unable to resist buying the seven reissue discs, the rest of the Legends (for otherwise missing silents), and maybe even the 8-DVD German set! What a mess. Still, much like the Laurel and Hardys, we should be grateful they actually exist at all, when so many others are lost forever.

Hi Brent!

Regarding A TOUGH WINTER, I'd say it's more of a trade off, rather than a purely better/worse scenario. As referenced on "The Lucky Corner" website, "This Old Gang Of Mine" is played over the opening credits on the Blackhawk print, whereas on the RHI/Vivendi reissue, "Good Old Days"* is instead mistakenly played over the Original Titles! The latter piece didn't debut until the following 1930-31 Theatrical season. Here is the link to that page: http://www.theluckycorner.com/rmt/099.html

I highly recommend getting the 7 RHI/Vivendi volumes while they can still be obtained at a reasonable price! In addition, I also suggest looking at my #143 post for other pertinent details that may help shed some further light: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/threads/our-gang-collection-80-shorts-oct-28.270642/page-8

EDIT: * Upon rechecking my RHI/Vivendi volume 2 DVD and Cabin Fever LD Transfer, there's actually NO music over the A TOUGH WINTER opening credits, whatsoever! I must have been thinking of a different short, probably LAZY DAYS from 1929 (Which I did just verify has the early 30's "Good Old Days" musical opening on my RHI and Cabin Fever sets!). Sorry about that!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Brent Reid]

Thanks Tony. I was actually (unsuccessfully) trying to avoid getting into the minutiae of the differences, vitally important though they are. I just want to get an as-good-as-possible set and enjoy it without continually putting it under the microscope.

I'd be very grateful if you can find out any details (ok: minutiae!) on the German set. I'm over there all the while and can easily bring a cheap copy back to the UK. Ideally it would have all the pros of the reissued seven DVDs plus contain the extras one - but what are the chances of that being the case?

Oh, and I already saved the info in your previous post aaages ago!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Thanks Tony. I was actually (unsuccessfully) trying to avoid getting into the minutiae of the differences, vitally important though they are. I just want to get an as-good-as-possible set and enjoy it without continually putting it under the microscope.

I'd be very grateful if you can find out any details (ok: minutiae!) on the German set. I'm over there all the while and can easily bring a cheap copy back to the UK. Ideally it would have all the pros of of the reissued seven DVDs plus contain the extras one - but what are the chances of that being the case?

Oh, and I already saved the info in your previous post aaages ago!

Hi Brent!

To be honest, in regards to the German volumes, I'm only interested in the MGM silents and even then, I'm a bit put off by the inclusion of embedded German subtitles. I don't know why these couldn't have simply been optional? Insofar as the Hal Roach talkies, I consider myself well covered between the 7 RHI/Vivendi and 6 Cabin Fever DVDs; plus I have DVD Transfers of all 21 Cabin Fever Laserdisc volumes.

Still, I can check with somebody who's very much in tune with the German DVD volumes, and relay this back to you! My biggest fear is if they also contain embedded German subtitles! For me, that would be worse than the 4% PAL speedup, which is something I don't worry about when it comes to the silents, but take into consideration with the talkies!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Brent Reid]

Thanks again Tony. Burned-in subs are never cool but as I'm sure you know, can often be removed by copying the discs and deleting that sub stream during the process.
Let me know about the transfers too and maybe I can save myself some money!

I know PAL speedup's an issue for many but it's something I rarely notice.