Other Shoe Drops: Will Blu-Ray be HDMI Only Too? (1 Viewer)

[Brent M]

I'm with Nils on this. Hell, VCRs are still being made(although in very limited numbers) so standard DVD players will be around for a very long time. They won't be phased out anytime soon so I don't think we have to worry about that for several years.

 

[Marko Berg]

But can such blue laser players be easily modified to become region-free, even if it's for standard definition DVDs only?

My current DVD player was region free out of the box, some importers or manufacturers themselves publish hack codes on their web sites that you can input by simply using the remote. Many offer firmware updates that disable region locks.

Will it be this easy with the next generation of players?

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Doubtful. They will run on secure hardware/software. Hack codes may still be available; physical hacking, less likely.

 

[Grant H]

I can feel it. When the dust settles after the Format Wars and there's one HD disc with acceptable specs, the US will be hit with a huge electro-magnetic pulse plunging us into the dark ages.

But a slow boat to China will enable you to pick up some nice bootlegs.

 

[John Goodwin]

Has anyone seen anything at all that mentions region free use with these new formats/security systems?

The ability to play discs from other regions is top of my list of concerns with any new format,after years of having the choice of buying the films i want,that maybe arent available in region 2 (or whose versions just plain suck, compared to the region 1 version etc).

Nowadays,if we actually get a film released in region 2 ,it's pretty much the same as the other regions,but not always.

The list of titles that are only available in one region is still large,and anything that restricted me to one region only would just annoy me to the point that i wouldnt buy into it in the first place.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

John,

That's really a matter where international laws may be the key. Per the DMCA in the US, hacking a player to allow region-free play could (depending on the method) be considered defeating a copyright protection method, and prosecutable.

However, in countries without a DMCA, or with a less draconian one, more methods would be available.

I suspect the difficulty will be more technological than legal in terms of region-free play. Hacking a HD disk player, while it may be legal in some jurisdictions, may not be trivial, depending on what steps the manufacturer has taken to make sure the hardware is a secure platform. More I cannot say without details of the security, which are not yet forthcoming.

 

[John Goodwin]

Ok thanks Aaron,
what is the current situation in the US, regarding region free standard DVD players?
Are they illegal as such?

Over here,most players sold are region free,mine was direct from the manufacturer,it just isnt an issue at all.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

I don't own one. They're not illegal, they just aren't manufactured/sold here in retail stores. I don't think anything stops us from importing one, and I'm pretty sure it's legal to pay someone to mod one for you.

If a manufacturer "accidentally" left something in the service menu to allow you to do this (didn't the original Apex players do this?), it would be difficult to prosecute someone who used it. HD players might not be as easy to mod, but that's unknown right now.

You are right to be concerned, though the status of region coding on high-def DVD is still unknown.

 

[Galen_V]

While there are no restrictions on importing a region free DVD player, you can't pay someone to alter a region-encoded player for you. As Aaron said, it's a felony for anyone in the US, including the player's owner, to alter the content scrambling system of a DVD player.

Also, I would bet my last dollar that there will be regions on any high-def DVD player, even though simultaneous world-wide releases are occuring with more and more frequency now.

 

[Rolando]

Don't forget that different companies have the distribution rights overseas. Region coding (though annoying) is there to make sure that if company X has the rights to Superman in Germany then anyone in Germany gets their Superman from company X and not from company Y that has the right to sell it in Brazil.

 

[Jeff Jacobson]

And if company X releases Superman in Pan & Scan with burned in German subtitles, they don't have to worry about people importing a superior version from Brazil. (Of course, if they'd released a version that was just as good as Company Y's version, then people would just buy it locally instead of importing.)

 

[SteveJKo]

I was soooooo looking forward to HD/Blu Ray. But I simply refuse to purchase a system where, after purchasing a disc with my hard earned money, I still have to get permission to watch my disc every time I want to watch it.

 

[John Goodwin]

yeah i was looking forward to it too,but now my collection of mostly non-region 2 standard DVD's probably wont play on any new format player.
From the sound of it though,it looks like internet connection isnt needed,its just an option to enable us to get "extra" content,like games etc?

 

[Adam Tyner]

There's nothing at this point to suggest that you will have to get permission (just the expected misinformation and FUD), so I don't know why you'd no longer be looking forward to these formats.

 

[Tony Stark]

It has not been decided whether a connection will be needed or not.

The answer right now is NOT yes or no - regardless of what has been posted.

If you read the spec (v0.90) connectivity language is there. However is clearly states that licences (i.e. permission to watch the disc) is dependent upon the licenee.

From the Spec v0.90 :

From the AACS point of view, a device is not required to have an online connection capability or support enhanced uses. However, individual format licenses may require it...

The concern here is that Blu-Ray is going AACS. It's our job - being led be the hard charging HTF Ron Epstein, to make sure that the studios don't require the connection.

It's unrealistic to say that the machines will not come with some sort of connectivity. The real issue is being forced to plug it in - and that has not been decided.

This document present the uglier scenario more straight forward:

http://www.aacsla.com/specifications...Video_0.90.pdf

 

[Marko Berg]

Can anyone point me to a legal case in the US where someone was convicted, or even sued and the case was either thrown out or settled, that would involve altering a DVD player's region coding? I have a hard time believing the studios or MPAA would go after anyone based on such a weak interpretation of the DMCA legislation.

My point is, if the threat of legal action is weak or non-existent, why do people even care? No one should buy into the studios' and the MPAA's fear-mongering. The greatest thing about DMCA for the studios seems to be that it doesn't even need to be used to sue or prosecute someone, because it appears to act as a deterrent even though its provisions haven't been fully tested in courts. Do you really think someone would be fined for hacking a DVD player to disable region coding?



Region coding does nothing to make sure someone has the rights to release something in a particular market. Contracts and licensing agreements that control distribution of copyrighted works dictate such rights; absence of region coding in no way stops a company from releasing product they have a legal right to release.

However, absence of any region coding would open the market to competition which essentially is how most countries want their economies to work for the most part. I'm appalled region coding has been allowed to exist this long as it's clearly an artificial trade restriction.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Well, this indicates that AACS itself is not the problem; the diagram on page 2 makes it clear the internet connection is for "enhanced uses".

The problem is in what the studios can pressure the Blu-ray manufacturers into including under the heading of "enhanced uses". 1080p? 1080i? Mere playback itself?

I agree with Tony: if we need to communicate anything to the manufacturers, it's that while we don't mind having an internet connection on our Blu-ray boxes, we will not accept it being mandatory in order to watch the movie. But there's no point in demonizing AACS. It goes out of its way to say there's no need for connectivity. Let's demonize the act of requiring internet access.

Right now, I'm more concerned about the complete black box which is "BD+" than anything else.

 

[SteveJKo]

Adam,

From what I've been reading the past few days I thought the internet connection aspect of the upcoming high def formats was a done deal. Of course even without that, I still have to deal with the fact my three year old 38" high def RCA TV has only "component video" as a connection option (and only ONE input at that). I guess I'm just totally screwed.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Well, it's private business practice, not a public mandate. There's nothing in any law that I am aware of which says region coding must be respected; that would indeed be an artificial trade restriction. The only reason it's even questionable in the US is because it has been stuffed in with the content protection algorithms, and violating those here is illegal. If you can defeat the region-coding without defeating the copyright protection scheme, you're not violating the law, here.

Region coding is more of a "gentlemen's agreement" among international distributors not to step on each others' turf, and it is ensconced amid the content protection to try to ensure the participants by-and-large remain "gentlemen". You could claim it was a monopolistic action, and there might be something to that (though I have issues about this that would drag this into a political thread), but an "artificial trade restriction" it is not, unless backed by legislation, any more than any other contract between corporations is an "artificial trade restriction".

 

[Aaron_Brez]

It is a fact that there will be an ethernet port and/or a phone line on HD disk players. The question is, does it have to be plugged in to merely watch the movies? We have nothing but speculation at this point. Some well-connected folks have said no, but, as always, suspicions run high.

We're all very eager to put high-def disks on our displays, and we're starting to get frustrated about not only the real setbacks (format war, no component 1080i outputs), but the potential setbacks, as well.

How I wish we had a Sony rep on this board!