Other Shoe Drops: Will Blu-Ray be HDMI Only Too? (1 Viewer)

[Sean Laughter]

I find this somewhat funny (not in a mean way) since it concerns a boycott from a bunch of people mad that their HDTV purchase "didn't go their way."

 

[Mike Wadkins]

^ i second that

 

[Dave Mack]

Hey guys,

I just recently got a new DLP FP after handing down my good old Mitsubishi Diamond CRT to a good friend. Although I am now HDCP compliant, I feel that out of principle, I might very well ignore the new format(s) unless they do the right thing and pass HD through the component outs. Now, I LOVE new technology. I am on my 7th DVD player, an OPPO upconverting one. I just bought a new amp so I could have DTS 96/24. I LOVE to see and hear my movies (although they aren't really "mine") the best way possible. My fiancee thinks I'm nuts.
But, I have a feeling that with a format war looming and the limited number of people who are gonna truly see the benefit, these formats are doomed to failure. And if you add in phone connectivity being mandatory? Uh uh. It's doomed. I wouldn't do that with DIVX and I'm not gonna do it now. I'm VERY happy with my upconverting player and well authored titles. Now, unless the studios start purposefully making transfers look worse to show the "benefits" in new HD transfers, (Which people may argue that certain studios already do to push their "Superbit" line, "Spiderman 2" comes to mind) the average american who just got into "home theater" and DVD buying recently is gonna 1) Be terribly confused. 2) Be kinda pissed.

"Look dad, HDdvd...!"
"What's that?"
"It's DVDs that are recorded in HD! And look! They have "Terminator 2, the Whizbang edition!""
"I thought we already HAD HDTV. That projection TV that cost me $4000 here at (random store name) 3 years ago IS an HDTV And we watch HDTV every nite on sattelite."
" Right dad, but now there are DVD's that are recorded in HD!"
"Oh. So all the DVDs of the movies that you already had on VHS that you MADE me buy all over again on DVD because they weren't good enough on videotape anymore were not in HDTV?"
"Right, dad."
"Even though the salesguy told me if I wanted to see the DVDs the right way without those damn black bars, I needed to buy one of those new HDTVs"
"Sorta, but those DVDs still weren't in HDTV. These DVDs will look WAY better!"
"So, you HAVE to have "Terminator 2" again in HDdvd?"
"Yeah!"
"Okay, how much is the DVD?"
"Well, wait... we won't be able to see it in HD."
"Why not? We have an HDTV, right?"
"Yeah, but we need a new HDdvd player."
"What?"
"Yeah. Our old DVD player is just regular DVD, not HDdvd."
sigh
"Okay, how much is a new HDdvd player?"
"Not too bad. Only $900"
"$900!!!!!!"
"Dad, PLEASE. We have to upgrade! All the new DVDs coming out are gonna be in HD! And you said our old dvd player was acting up anyways!"
"ok..........."
To store employee
"Hi, I'd like to know more about these HDdvd players."
"Ok, sir. Do you have an HDTV?"
"Yep. Bought it here 3 years ago. Cost a bundle."
"Okay, sir. And does your set have either a DVI or HDMI input that is HDCP compliant?"
"What the heck is all that?"
"Well sir, the new HDdvd players only output the HD signal through these connections. Do you have your set hooked up to cable or dish and are you watching HDTV?"
"Yep. The cable guy brought us a new box. We have to pay $5.00 more per month to rent it."
"Do you remember how he connected it to the set?"
"Ummm, yeah. He said he had to use some cable that had 3 wires, one for each color."
"Ok, that was a component connection. You say you bought the set here."
"Yep. Right here. Cost a ton of coin too."
"Ok, let me look this up...."
employee enters customer's name, pulls up old invoice info.
"Right, I see it here. Mitsubishi Diamond CRT. Good set. Too bad they don't make them anymore."
"Yep. Top of the line."
"Hmmmm, apparently the model set you bought does NOT have the right inputs for HDdvd."
"What?!?!? I was told that my set WAS an HDTV! I even paid $800 extra to make sure that it was a true HD set, not just HD ready! Even though the cable guy said that with the new cable box it didn't matter and I could have saved the extra money."
"Yes it is sir, but it's not compatible with these new HDdvd players."
"You mean, I can't hook this up to my set."
"Well, you can hook it up, but through your connections, you won't see the picture in HD."
"Even though my set IS an HD set?"
"That's right. Even though your set CAN display the signal, the player won't allow your set to see the signal in HD through your connections."
"Why not?"
"Well, the studios made the DVD player manufacturers' do this because they are worried about piracy."
"mmm, hmmm. Yeah, I have nothing better to do with my time than to copy movies. But wait, I remember my Mitsubishi set came with a "Promise agreement" Something that said that I would be sure to be compatible with any new technology in the future."
"Yes, that's true actually. Mitsubishi did make that promise a few years back."
"Ok, so?"
"Well, I think they will sell you and install a module upgrade, but I think it's like $1000."
"WHAT?!?!?"
"Yeah. Actually if your set is already 3 years old, you might be better off just buying a new set. All the new ones are already compatible."
"A new set?"
"We have a whole NEW line of Mitsubishi HD DLP sets. They should be great for you as long as you aren't susceptible to RBE."
"RBE?"
"Rainbow effect."
"What's that?"
"Well, some people notice a rainbow pattern on fast moving or high contrast objects."
"ooooooo kkkkkk...."
"But most people don't have a problem. Bottom line is, if your set is already 3 years old, you might be better off to just get a new one and save the $1000. We have some GREAT financing options now. 2 years, no interest!"
"oooo kkkk. And what do I do with my old set that I spent $4000 on?"
"Well, maybe you could sell it, or hand it down to a relative."
"Oooooo kkkkk, and how much are the new Mitsubishi sets?"
"I could get you the new 52" DLP for $3500."
"And that way, I could watch HDdvd?"
"Yep. And you will be fully prepared for any new software that comes out."
"uh huh, sounds like I heard the same thing 3 years ago."
"Well, that's technology. And which HDdvd system do you want?"
"Huh?"
"Well there's two. HDDVD and Blu-Ray. "Terminator 2" is available in both."
"There's 2 HDdvd systems?"
"Yes."
"Kinda like Beta and VHS from the old days?"
"Yep. But they both look good. But one other thing, you have to plug the new player into a phone line."
"What? I have to connect the player to the internet?"
"Yeah. That way they can make sure that your player is only playing protected copyrighted material."
"And if I they decide that I'm not?"
"Well, they could send a signal out to your player that would deactivate it."
"So, they're gonna be monitoring what I watch at home?"
"Well......"

turns to son

"Junior?"
"yeah dad?"
"Let's get the hell out of here. Terminator 2's good but it ain't THAT good. You'll have to make do with your old copy."
"But DAD!!!!!!!!"

They leave store without Junior getting his 5th version of "Terminator 2"


Think this is farfetched? It will be happening next year.

If these new formats launch the way it looks now, it will NEVER take off. It's gonna be DVD-A, SACD all over again. Most people don't buy DVD-A's of their favorite records, why? Because the CDs sound good enough for them. Most people will be happy enough with standard DVD for the same reason. If you want people to upgrade to buy the same movies ALL OVER AGAIN, make it easy for them. Like DVD was. The people who DO care and DO notice the difference are the early adopters, us. People like us MADE DVD a success by supporting it early, spending ALOT of $$$ (My first DVD player cost $600. I have bought 6 more players since.) And we also pushed DVD to all our friends, showing them how great the new technology was. Telling them all, "You HAVE to get DVD. It looks SO much better than VHS!" showing them the differences in our homes. Showing them what home theater could be, surround sound, HDTV etc..
And we are the ones punished with this new format unless we want to upgrade needlessly when our older equipment would work just fine.
As I said, I recently got a new FP and I am ok, but I did that because I moved across country, and taking my good old 350lb. Mits. was not a possibility. If I was still living in NYC, I wouldn't have upgraded at all. My old set was and still is amazing. And it has several good years left in it.



This all will crash and burn. Watch.

d

 

[Dave Mack]

sorry for the above post being so lenghty but I AM irked and I also had "Peet's coffee" this AM.

wheeeeee!

 

[RobertR]

There is a difference, though. The laserdisc diehards had essentially zero impact on DVD sales. This time, there is so much discontent with the HD formats that it's MUCH more likely that it will have a BIG impact on their prospects for success.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Are you kidding? This is the same culture that in a recent survey 43% said they were already seeing HD DVDs in their home because they own an HDTV! The average consumer won't be upgrading to HD-DVD/Blu-ray simply because they have been totally uneducated about the formats. Most people believe since they own an HDTV, every signal that passes to their sets automatically becomes HDTV signals. Who can sell Blu-ray/HD-DVD to someone who ignorantly believes they already own it?

 

[KyleC]

Haha has anyone read this today?

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...10_131820.html

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Funny. I've already given up on either of these formats. I don't need big brother's hands all over me. Any player that can self destruct, and needs to be connected to the internet and take away every freedom we have is a no buy product in my book. I guess I'll live with regular DVDs from now til the end of time. Thanks Sony. Here's a little slogan for their new Blu-ray campaign, maybe they can use it (though I doubt it's original):

Blu-ray will only play inferior images on component inputs, you'll have to be connected to the internet in order to use it, and your player can self destruct anytime the manufacturers want it to, but don't worry, I've got good news...I just saved a bunch of money by staying with regular DVD.

 

[Dave Mack]

well put, Carlos

 

[SteveCallas]

Dave mack, great post - funny and true. But I can see it getting even worse in that the store employees won't be so helpful in explaining. People will end up with hd-dvds that won't play on their blue ray player, hd dvd players that don't play in hi def on their hd tv, players accidentally shutting down from playing home made dvds, all hell breaking loose. It will be all over the news, people will be pissed, and the vast majority of the people won't think it's worth it.

I agree that this will be a failure unless something changes. Even if things do change, how many people do you think are going to re-buy movies they already own on dvd in hd dvd? Maybe 3%?

 

[RaymondSteiner]

Just read that HDDVD lose it step again. They give up (mostly) it's 4th quarter launch:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...aKWIm4,00.html

 

[KyleC]

I like the quote:

"It is more likely the product will do well among specialty retailers that cater to so-called early adopters of technology."

HA!

 

[Dave Mack]

Yep, I just suggested ONE potential situation. There will be many others.

 

[Grant H]

I think a compromise would be if component downrezzed to 1080i. That, of course, presumes titles will actually come out in 1080P.

I'd imagine most of the component-only HDTV sets in people's homes can't do better than that anyway. It took awhile for 720P sets to come out, and even now 1080P sets aren't that easy to come by.

Of course, anyone out there with a 720P capable set that has only component inputs to work with probably wouldn't be too happy with that compromise, but 1080i IS still considered HD. Still, a copy risk I suppose, but considering only those with HD sets could take advantage of the HD quality and that number is low right now....

As HD catches on, more people will be able to take advantage of quality better than 1080i; would those people settle for the bootleg quality when they could have a better product from the manufacturers? If they paid for the hardware in the first place...

Regarding connecting to the Internet or phone. They'd better be providing me with the phone line or cable. Right now, I use only a cellular phone and I have no cable. I have no cable because I watch DVD's instead. I would not buy cable so that I could watch a HD-DVD. Defeats the purpose.

I KNOW!! The companies involved can strike some huge deal with Verizon and every player will have it's own cell phone system built in (naturally, included in the cost to the consumer at a hefty fee to cover that lifetime of calls) that can automatically dial-in everything using wireless technology.

Maybe I should delete that project. Someone might actually incorporate that idea. The consumer would never even have to know. Unless they were in a "dead zone" and couldn't figure out why the movie wouldn't start.

 

[Brent M]

Can you say DEBACLE? It sounds like HD-DVD just took a major kick to the nuts and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. The majority of the public(I'd say 90-95% if not more) has absolutely ZERO interest in movies on an HD format right now and I have no doubt that it will stay that way for at least another 2-3 years. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't stand a chance in today's marketplace and are doomed to suffer the same fate as SACD/DVD-Audio. If they were launching these formats with Star Wars, LOTR, Spider-Man, Shrek, Titanic, Indiana Jones, etc. there might be more buzz to get potential customers on board, but with the lame selection of 90+ titles they had planned for roll-out it's no surprise that there isn't a lot of interest in these formats. A lack of desireable titles, need for an HDMI input and phone or ethernet connections being necessary solidify my position of saying "F OFF" to the studios when it comes to their future offerings!

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Yes but they will shove the format down our throats whether we want it or not. Eventually they will no longer produce regular DVD players, but instead will offer HD-DVD/Blu-ray players as replacements down the road. Your current DVD player breaks in 5 yrs, you go to replace it and find out they no longer make standard DVD players, only HD-DVD/Blu-ray players then that are backwards compatible with your standard DVDs. However, they won't output component, and will force you to go HDMI, with internet phone connection. In other words, we'll have to eventually upgrade to this fascist format whether we want to or not.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

This is actually fairly likely, in order to promote adoption, though I doubt they will eliminate component or force phone/internet on DVDs, they'll just limit it to 480p as it is today. Otherwise a huge business will be lost to them, as small companies will just buy DVD computer drives and one of those firmware DVD players and repackage them as set top DVD players.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

No J6P is going to pay for an internet connection just so studios can revoke their right to watch legitimate product they have bought. Any format adopting this strategy is dead on delivery. This, and the other issues we have been complaining about need to make it to the mainstream press. All it will take is one congressperson to find out their HDTV won't work with these formats, and the legislation will be put in place to stop entertainment companies fomr these heavy handed, and ultimately ineffective, solutions. If they want to fight piracy, they have to go after the countries that facilitate it, not the average guy who wants to watch a flick.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

No one's gonna tell J6P that's what it's for. They'll say it's for pay-per-view and downloading extras on the internet. That's how DirecTV and Dish get people to hook up phone lines to their systems. Fortunately, in those cases it really is optional. We can only hope that this will be the case with HD disks as well.

You don't want Congress's hands on it. Look at the last several years... DMCA, Copyright extension. They are no friends of ours. They wield a hammer and think everything's a nail. They will simply mandate a copyright protection regime that everyone must subscribe to. And it will be what their Hollywood buddies think is best.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

There isn't one single consumer electronic manufacturer that has even hinted or suggested that they will stop making standard red laser DVD drives/players any time soon, least of all in the next five or ten years. Top leading industry analysts like from the IDC have predicted that blue laser optical drives/players will account for less than 15% of the total combined yearly sales of red and blue laser players by 2012. This means they expect, as do most manufacturers that standard DVD's will outsell their blue laser counterparts for at least eight years, possibly more.

Therefore, if you are worried that in the next five years there wont be any standard DVD players being made, think again. There will likely be more choices for standard DVD players than blue laser players.

Nevertheless, lets ignore all that, and assume what you say is true and your only choice is to replace your non-functioning DVD player with a blue laser one. Just as Aaron said, they will output 480p over component just like your old standard DVD.