Option B... PB2-Ultra (1 Viewer)

[steve nn]

The Ultra is different…I adjusted it hot (maybe +5dB) before I started listening to music and left it there all night. That was a first. I never found myself getting up and turning down the gain slightly when the bass called attention to itself. For the first hour or so, I found myself thinking “dead center anchor” was a good way to describe the sound. The PB2+ was always seamless, but the Ultra is even more refined when blending in with my Rockets.
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Thanks for sharing Matt and may I add a very worth-while read.

What jumped out at me in your experience with the PB12-Ultra/2, is the leeway you seem to be experiencing in your calibration level. I also have found the very same to hold true exhibited in the performance of the PB12-Ultra/2. It seems as though if a guy does decide to run the PB12-Ultra/2 a little on the hotter side, the PB12-Ultra/2 will be less likely to display some of the negative traits that generally manifests itself while doing so. -Well- Thats been my experience with my short but sweet love affaire with the PB12-Ultra/2 anyway.

>>>but there are differences in the sound of the two drivers at high volume levels (which shouldn't be surprising considering the design goals of the Ultra driver).

 

[Matt G.]

Yesterday I spent some more time with it and got the PEQ configured. I had a pretty big peak at 50Hz that needed taming and I was able to do that without too much trouble.

Back to your question...I qualify myself as an "audio enthusiast" and therefore immune to the subjective label persecution leveled at folks who dare hold out an opinion of dB-12 vs TV-12. In short...I don't know enough about audio to tell you why, just able to tell you what I hear. I claim ignorance if you disagree with me. I can tell you that I put the PB12-Ultra/2's (thats going to take some getting used to typing) closest sibling, the PB12-Plus/2, in the same spot and am able to "do more" with the PB12-Ultra/2.

I think it was you Steve that said its "better behaved" and smoother. I agree 100% with that. This sub is perfect for those of us who like to turn it up to "11" or beyond and still get the same, quality sound out of it. When I had the Plus, I learned pretty much where I needed to keep the gain on any given music CD to keep it at maximum performance. The Ultra "behaves" better when asking more from it...to clarify, when I know I am pushing it hot, it still sounds great. The Plus was unable to do that as well. This even before I adjusted the PEQ. I knew I had a peak at 50Hz, and that is going to affect things, but I was still able to get great, noticeable results out of it at high volumes.

I gets even better now that I adjusted the PEQ. I am sure you old pros are yawning, but it is a revelation to work with a sub that has a flatter response...very revealing. Now that I have adjusted the PEQ, I am starting to hear subtleties that I didn't hear before. A very fast double bass drum has more seperation now. Bass notes have more definition. Spending time with your room response is a good thing...whether you have an Ultra or not, me thinks.

Oh, and another bonus to a flatter response...I can turn the gain up even louder now. What bliss. I think its set to 1/3 on the gain now, and still as "polite", "refined" and devestating as ever. Got to love the Ultra.

 

[Edward J M]

This is really good stuff, guys. As Tom V has said many times before, there is no mystery about why these two drivers sound and act different. Compared to the dB-12, the TV-12 has different freqency response, thermal compression, mechanical compression, distortion, and motor strength vs. excursion characteristics. Some of these differences will be audible at lower volumes, and other ones will manifest themselves at higher volumes.

None of it is "magic"; the TV-12 is simply a superior driver and it performs better in all measureable objective categories, and that's why it sounds better and also costs a LOT more than the dB-12.

The real eye opener in this comparison IS the dB-12 though - for 1/2 the cost of the TV-12, it probably delivers 85% of its performance. Now that's performance value.

 

[steve nn]

I and you Matt, are definitely on the same page. Our difference only being that I have a slight null at the 50Hz mark. always have.

>>>Oh, and another bonus to a flatter response...I can turn the gain up even louder now. What bliss. I think its set to 1/3 on the gain now, and still as "polite", "refined" and devestating as ever. Got to love the Ultra.>I can tell you that I put the PB12-Ultra/2's (thats going to take some getting used to typing) closest sibling, the PB12-Plus/2, in the same spot and am able to "do more" with the PB12-Ultra/2.

 

[steve nn]

I see we posted at the same time Ed so rather than Edit.

>>>None of it is "magic"; the TV-12 is simply a superior driver and it performs better in all measurable objective categories, and that's why it sounds better and also costs a LOT more than the dB-12.

The real eye opener in this comparison IS the dB-12 though - for 1/2 the cost of the TV-12, it probably delivers 85% of its performance. Now that's performance value.

 

[Matt G.]

Mine is below 30Hz...which is a real bummer. I sit in the middle of the room and it is the worst spot I could be for the lowest bass. I can still get some sub 30 response, but it is about -15dB. I am (slowly) building out our basement and will be building a dedicated HT there, so I am hopeful it will sound even better when its down there; it will be like a brand new sub all over again!

 

[steve nn]

Mine is below 30Hz...which is a real bummer. I sit in the middle of the room and it is the worst spot I could be for the lowest bass.
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My sincere sympathy to you Matt. I bet thats the first thing you address in your new HT.>Wall behind you) If I take my meter out into the middle of our room, we're talking major1/2 spl. Some actually like this but I'm not including myself in that group. Hope your new dedicated Theater comes along pronto quick so you will realize all the benefits the PB12-Ultra/2 will provide. Actualy you might be ready for a upgrade by then and like you say.>>>it will be like a brand new sub all over again!

 

[Matt G.]

I can't imagine upgrading from this sub!

My wife and I watched Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions this weekend...its fun going back and watching some movies I watched with the PB2+; they sound even better now.

 

[steve nn]

Thats what I'm going to view next Matt. Reloaded and Revolutions. Yesterday I viewed LOTR and Master & Commander. Absolutely incredible Had the sub at a +4db calibration and you would never know. Perfectly behaved on both disks. Man does this sub pound and sound so good doing it.. I had a PC-Ultra for a few weeks prior and really enjoyed Master & Commander on that but like mentioned, I really like the 25Hz tune. Thats why I had the three 25-31CS+'s. With the digging ability of the PB12-Ultra/2 and it being tuned to 25Hz, it's all gravy to me. Theres no down side imo. This is a sub I could live with for a long time. What more could one ask for in a sub? I could see myself going for a PB12-Ultra/3-4 though More of a good thing is always good isn't it?? (Sub anyway) My HT is leaky enough that it wouldn't hurt anyhow. Definitely not needed though.

Oh No! The wife is home:frowning: She informed me she is going to take a nap, so you know what that means. She'll be gone latter though

 

[Matt G.]

I like the 25Hz tune too, especially for music. Since I have that null in the < 30Hz range, I get more volume out of it that way anyway.

I think SVS tried the Ultra in the PB4 but said the added weight and bang for the buck was not worth it. Its also a "push pull" design, so I guess that might have something to do with it to. It would be cool to hear though!

Yeah, I love my wife more than anything, but when she has to go somewhere, you can bet the walls will be shaking 5 minutes after she's gone.

 

[Scott Goldsmith]

Steve - Can you try rewatching (not all of it) that Matrix movie with the one port blocked and ss filter on 20hz and see if you hear a difference, which is better, etc? I have my Ultra on the 20hz setting, and just can't decide what to do, 25 or 20? I love deep bass though, so I don't know if I can pull myself to use the 25hz setting :frowning:

 

[Ilkka R]

How would you compare PC-Ultra to PB12-Ultra/2? Are they sonically different or is is just pure max spl difference? Just curious because I remember someone said that tubes have their own "tubesound" (bad).

 

[steve nn]

Thats a good question Ilkka. Let me think on that a bit. I'll give you my best shot at it though.

 

[steve nn]

Steve - Can you try rewatching (not all of it) that Matrix movie with the one port blocked and ss filter on 20hz and see if you hear a difference, which is better, etc? I have my Ultra on the 20hz setting, and just can't decide what to do, 25 or 20? I love deep bass though, so I don't know if I can pull myself to use the 25hz setting
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Sure Scott, I would be glad to. I already tried it on SW II and reverted back to the 25Hz tune. I love deep bass to, but don't want to give up any of the upper region bass. I will try it out on M&C though and see what I come up with. I'll post readings in both tunes and do the first Fly-by in SW II also. It's basically a 30Hz scene.

>>>I think SVS tried the Ultra in the PB4 but said the added weight and bang for the buck was not worth it. Its also a "push pull" design, so I guess that might have something to do with it to. It would be cool to hear though!
Yeah, I love my wife more than anything, but when she has to go somewhere, you can bet the walls will be shaking 5 minutes after she's gone.

 

[Scott Goldsmith]

Are you finding any loss in low end with it in the 25hz tune? Something along the lines of LOTR's where there is a lot of sub 20hz stuff, maybe try that movie in both tunes. I will do my own testing when I get all the stuff moved in, but would like a second opinion to reassure I'm no crazy

 

[steve nn]

Are you finding any loss in low end with it in the 25hz tune? Something along the lines of LOTR's where there is a lot of sub 20hz stuff, maybe try that movie in both tunes. I will do my own testing when I get all the stuff moved in, but would like a second opinion to reassure I'm no crazy
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I can guarantee you I will not have the extension in the 25Hz tune that you experience in the 20Hz tune Scott. It's just that imo the PB12-Ultra/2 digs so aggressively to 19-20Hz that I would rather not compromise the 30-40Hz and above. (I'm used to it) I'm very happy with the 19-20Hz extension. You coming from 20-39+s might want more In the SS 20Hz tune. The spl will rise above what the 25Hz tune offers in the lower SS material.

When I ran the PC-Ultra with my 25s. I was able to dig deeper but the 11-12 db gain that was realized at 19-20Hz (PC-Ultra only) was negated to a 6-8db gain with the introduction of the 25s. Still a very nice gain though and the upper Hz material was not effected at all. Maybe a db higher at 50Hz and a db lower at 70Hz. Something like that.

LOTR it is then. Great movie for the 20Hz tune option (except the ring drop)

 

[Matt G.]

Look...I am deleting SVS from my bookmarks. This same thing happened to me with the PB2+. I was happy as could be with it and then 3 months later they just HAD to release the Ultra in black and put that ridiculous price on it. Of course I had no other option than to buy it...you can understand that, right?

I don't want to do that again for at least 6 months!

 

[Scott Goldsmith]

Cool, I would appreciate the help on this one! I will have to try both settings as well, I don't know what the Ultra is capable of at the 25hz setting or the 20hz setting during the same movie. If it's only a couple db's loss in the upper end and a gain in the low end, I can live with that

It's hard to think of any other setting when I was running 3 20-39's at once, you kind of become used to that low end rumble

 

[steve nn]

I don't want to do that again for at least 6 months!
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I'm with ya on that Matt. I only had the PC-Ultra for a few weeks when the black option came out Lets just say I was slightly irritated. So I sent it back and picked up the black PB12-Ultra/2 and the PB10-ISD for good measure.


>>>Of course I had no other option than to buy it...you can understand that, right?

 

[KeithY]

Scott,

A good example of this is Finding Nemo, the Darla scene
sounds better with all ports open and the sub sliding one
feels better with one port plugged. Didn't do any SPLing,
just my observation.

I'll have to do some measurin' next time everyone's gone.

Another thing I tried was plugging different ports,
using my trusty SPL meter and the T2 THX intro at -10 of
reference, I put the ports to the test.

top port plugged 101d
bottom port plugged 103db
all ports open 105db


This is what happens when I have nothing better to do