Onkyo 898 and Pearl Harbor (1 Viewer)

[Marty Neudel]

>I still find it difficult to believe this is a Onkyo or Denon problem when Roger of Dolby clearly states this also effects new digital television broadcasts as well.<

Gerard,

it could be an encoding defect. However, most receivers are not exhibiting this problem. Since the dropouts come from more than one source, that leaves the mentioned receivers as a common element, and thus suspect.

In any case, until the question is resolved, and the new receivers are shown to work properly, it would be wisest to avoid buying a product that is currently exhibiting a performance problem.

Marty

 

[David Head]

Since the dropouts come from more than one source...it would be wisest to avoid buying a product that is currently exhibiting a performance problem

There are more than 10,000 titles on DVD that play without a problem through Onkyo and Denon receivers. There are two titles that have problems with the DD track on some Onkyo and Denon receivers, which can play the DTS track on those two titles without a problem. I guess you'll have to decide if this warrants avoiding those Denon and Onkyo products.
David

 

[Eric_M]

Dave,

What were the manafacturing dates on your reciever as well as your friend who owns the 595. Perhaps this may help somewhat when and if someone goes for either of them

 

[David Head]

Eric,
I'm not sure if the manufacturing date is on the back of the reciever or not. I tried to see, but I can't see anything in the spider's web of cables I have.
I can tell you I bought my 696 on 7/26 and my friend bought his 595 the first week of June.
David

 

[Adam Barratt]

As far as I know, most Denon and Onkyo receivers use Cirrus Logic/Crystal Semiconductor DSPs for Dolby Digital processing. Kenwood, Outlaw, Rotel, Sherwood and Harman Kardon also use Crystal DSPs, so some of these may also be susceptible to this problem.

As the dropouts seem to be related to the EX flag on the new version 7.0 revision of Dolby Digital a temporary solution would be simply not to activate this flag on future releases. Hopefully the problem will be fixed by Dolby before this becomes an issue, however.

Onkyo's 989 is over a year old yet also suffers from dropouts, so the age of the DSP may not be a cause, but perhaps the overall DSP design chosen.

Hopefully this problem can be sorted out quickly, although even with a re-pressing (which Buena Vista and Universal may balk at) there will be at least two Dolby Digital soundtracks some will have to be wary of.

Adam

 

[Bill Johnston]

My New Onkyo 595 and my Panisonic DV-53 (I think that's the model) have serious Audio Drop-outs for bother Jarasic Park and Pearl Harbor...
I am not sure what to do... I got this set up only 2 weeks ago... Should I return it for a Kenwood VR-509... Or a Denon 1802... I don't know... Up till now everything sounded GREAT...
I don't know, Hopfully they solve this problem quick... Maybe, I'll temp return the reciever untill they solve the problem...
Is it the Pannisonic? Or the Onkyo? Or the DVD's?
:frowning:
Bill

 

[Herman_db]

Hi Guys,

I'm new at the forum.... I live in Johannesburg South Africa and I rented Pearl Harbour (Region 2, DD only no DTS) on Christmas afternoon, drop-outs like you can't believe. I'm running a Onkyo 989 and a Onkyo dv555 dvd player.

Cheers. Herman

 

[BillM]

Gerard,

“I still find it difficult to believe this is a Onkyo or Denon problem when Roger of Dolby clearly states this also effects new digital television broadcasts as well.”

Whether the bitstream source is a DVD or BROADCAST, the bitstream runs thru and is decoded by the same chipset. The chipset in the Onkyo does not respond properly to the EX flag and is causing dropouts. To place blame on the studios is not logical. The studios do not build the encoding or decoding hardware.

This is an Onkyo and Denon problem, much like many of the playback problems on DVDs seem to only occur in Toshibas.

WM

 

[Luuk Vos]

Guys,
Please read the following Onkyo Press Release:
http://www.onkyousa.com/article_top.cfm?id=21
It tells us this:
"Based on our exhaustive testing and after consulting with Dolby Laboratories it is our opinion that the problem is related to the audio encoding software that was used to master the DVDs in question and that the problem is ultimately a software problem. Dolby Laboratories, the movie studios in question, Onkyo, and other manufacturers are working together to prevent a similar problem from recurring"
So it seems to be an ENCODING problem, nothing else. Also, you could say that since it is an encoding problem, it is a Dolby problem. Although, this is the OPINION of Onkyo USA. However, Buena Vista released this title, so they could also come up with a new release.
Let us wait and see what happens. One thing is for sure: I want my problem solved. Let them (Buena Vista) give me another (but flawless) PH disc or let Onkyo give me another 797.
Luuk

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

I have no audio dropouts with DD on Pearl Harbor with my Onkyo 595 and Toshiba SD1600 DVD player.

 

[Michael_T]

So it seems to be an ENCODING problem, nothing else. Also, you could say that since it is an encoding problem, it is a Dolby problem. Although, this is the OPINION of Onkyo USA. However, Buena Vista released this title, so they could also come up with a new release.

Onkyo will say what it wants, and it may be an encoding problem, but it may also be a multitude of variables, that include an encoding problem that interacts with a specific decoding chip in an adverse way. If that is the case, would it be Onkyo's problem or Dolby's problem? Maybe the fault lies with the chip manufacturer (with Onkyo's fault only being that they happen to have the bad luck of choosing that particular chip manufacturer to provide them with their DD decoding hardware).

If it is the decoding chip, imagine the effort it is going to take from Onkyo to have to fix the numerous units (which could number in the thousands or more) to change the decoding chip in all their receivers that exhibit this problem. Obviously this is something Onkyo would not want to do, so it is natural for them to want to point the finger at the next best source - software encoding. And if it is a software encoding issue, maybe it can be rectified more easily than having thousands of receivers returned for repair. But it still isn't clear to me what the software encoding issue is, and if it is rectified will it remove features from the software that allow other technology to function correctly (i.e., a DD EX flag that will automatically switch your receiver into DD EX mode).

It appears there is a bit of finger pointing with regard to this issue, which may never be resolved to anyones expectations. At least Onkyo is upfront in issuing a press release - even though it may just be spin control to remove the fault from themselves and put it on someone else (Dolby?)

Hopefully, more and more DVDs will come with both a DD and a DTS soundtrack, so that if one doesn't work to your expectations you can always use the other. Unfortunately, as we have seen with personal computers and software, there are always many incompatibilities that just can't be foreseen nor fixed to everyone's expectations. That's life. My feeling is that this isn't going to be the first issue we ever see with software incompatibility with DVD. There will be other problems, some less serious, others more serious.

I know I don't give any solution to this problem, but the fact is the movie is still watchable (with either DPL or DPL2 or DTS) so it isn't a total washout. Hopefully there will be a viable solution that will make everyone happy.

 

[Rick Radford]

Bill Johnston,
Do you have DTS as an option? I'm not familiar with the 595, but it's a later model and if it has DD I'd think it will have DTS.
Use the DTS option. You won't be disappointed! You will likely have to enable bitstream out from your DVD player in order for it to work. (most, if not all DVD players come with DTS set to pcm.. which disables DTS.. this is to protect your speakers from damage should you select DTS and NOT have a processor that can handle it)
I'd say keep the 595. Don't stress over it.

 

[Bill Johnston]

If this a a DIGITAL work around I plan on keeping the 595 and the RV56... I guess on the Panasonic, I need to make sure DTS bitsteam set to OFF so It comes thru the Optical cable... Hopfully that works...

I just bought a new computer a couple of months back and trust me... I know about incompatabilitys...

Bill

 

[Michael_T]

I need to make sure DTS bitsteam set to OFF so It comes thru the Optical cable

Actually you want to set the DTS bitstream to ON (not off). I am sure this was merely a typing error on your part.
Good luck.
(I know I answered you regarding this same question in another thread).

 

[Gerard Martin]

I found the simplest solution to audio
dropouts is buy only DVD disc's with
dual sound tracts DD AND DTS, if they
don,t have DTS they don,t make it to
the cash register.

 

[Jason Wolters]

I think everyone will take a different attitude towards the scope of this problem. It really isn't that big of deal considering you can switch to DTS and that it is only two titles so far. The frustrating part is that you spend good money and a lot of time trying to get everything just right in your HT and then a problem like this comes along. Not that big of deal? Probably not. A thing to consider when looking to buy some of the new Denon and Onkyo equipment? In my book, absolutely yes!

 

[Eric_M]

The main thing is if and when this problem does get fixed what will Onkyo do if it turns out the big part of the fault is on thier side. Will they allow everyone to upgrade thiers that experience this? It wouldn't be right to just fix the new ones and let everyone else just deal with it. If anything it would be best to still buy the Onkyo and hope it doesn't do it for you. If it doesn't depending on the DVD player you ar using, or if you just happen to get lucky then you are safe. The other option is a Kenwood 509 I suppose since I have yet to hear anything about them. However who knows right now.

 

[Ken Seeber]

Do you have DTS as an option? I'm not familiar with the 595, but it's a later model and if it has DD I'd think it will have DTS.

Yes, the 595 has DTS, but not all of us have DVD players that are capable of passing the DTS bitstream. I'm not planning on upgrading my DVD player for awhile yet and shouldn't have to in order to work around a faulty chip set.

I'd also like to say that Anchor Bay's recently-released DVD of "The Stunt Man" exhibits audio drop outs. The disc has DTS-ES and Dolby Digital EX sound tracks.

I'm using the Onkyo TX-DS595 with a Sony DVP-S300 DVD player.

 

[Rick Radford]

Yes, the 595 has DTS, but not all of us have DVD players that are capable of passing the DTS bitstream.

Good point, Ken. I hadn't considered that.

However, in Bill's case (I think he has the Panny RP56), he does have a player that does DTS.

Bill.. I haven't seen your reply yet.. but as Michael_T says, ensure that bitstream is ON for DTS (a DVD player option.. not just the receiver). Although I believe the 595 comes setup to recognize the DTS signal automatically.

 

[MartyV]

Hi All,

There are two other recent threads that discuss this matter thoroughly. It is because the DVD manufacturer is using the DD-EX track for anti-piracy reasons and the information in that track is confusing the 6.1 dsp. This is not a hardware problem because the equipment will decode a normal DD-EX soundtrack. This is a software problem in that that DVD manufacturers are using the EX track in a manner that it was not intended to be used.

Marty.