The Matrix Revolutions (2003) (1 Viewer)

[Chris Atkins]

I still think it's a good idea for your characters to have clear motivations.

 

[Neil M]

I'm going to see the movie to be entertained, not to try and read something into the movie that's not there or to learn a valuable life lesson.

That seems to be the problem with Reloaded and it sounds like its the problem with Revolutions. Yes, people want to be entertained. But with the first Matrix, there was much more. It had philosophic and religious undertones that needed to be explored further. I think people were expecting this to be the focus of the last two movies. I love the action scenes as much as anyone else but they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. The Matrix could have set itself apart from other science fiction movies but instead they chose the entertain people first then work on story and characters route. Reloaded got decent buzz when it came out because most people were saying that Revolutions would clear up everything. The set up was pretty nice. These movies would have been big blockbusters no matter which way they made them. People will go see Revolutions just because it's the matrix. I am going to see it later and hopefully I won't be disappointed.

 

[Chris Atkins]

I agree with Neil. RELOADED asked some interesting questions and we have been tanatlized and promised with a payoff in REVOLUTIONS. To not provide that is, I think, a failure.

Still have to see the movie to be sure though.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

I still think it's a good idea for your characters to have clear motivations.

But the Merovingian does have clear motivations...he wants more power. Sounds like you want more complex motivations, which is a different argument entirely.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Most of us are discussing an unseen film.

I never expected ALL the answers. We never get them in our life. Why should our heroes? I am expecting some answers.

Reloaded was the gift that kept on giving for me. Every new viewing was a new perspective. It was candy for the eyes, ears, heart, mind, and soul. But it was more than that. For Revolutions to fail me, it has to stagnate or not move forward. It could be a failure by tying EVERYTHING up. I want resolution, not a data dump.

There will be, must be, questions when the credits roll. What questions are left are the key?

I have no idea what I am babbling, because I am still suffering at work, as the first waves of viewers are hating it, praising it, or loving it.

So I'll bag ass, and let those whove seen it take over.

I do have high expectations,
Chuck

 

[Chris Atkins]

But the Merovingian does have clear motivations...he wants more power. Sounds like you want more complex motivations, which is a different argument entirely.

Look...here is a foil for our hero...the Merovingian! He wants more power...therefore he must keep the Keymaker from Neo!

Now...audience must hate Merovingian and route for Neo!

Doesn't work for me, Marvin.

 

[Matt Stone]

Well, I'm back. I'm twisted on the film. I liked a lot of parts, and disliked a lot of other ones. I keep trying to tell myself that my problems are a result of lofty expectations, but I'll need to see this film again to decide whether I can forgive.

Some quick thoughts on stuff I liked...

The idea that the Architect and the Oracle are exact opposites, and what the Architect told us should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he acted like he knew everything doesn't mean he actually did. This ties into the revelation that programs, much like humans, are faced with choices, love, karma, etc. That helps with the "the only way to get there is together" theory of compromise.

Neo's sacrifice. I'm still a little confused as to the Oracle saying that they'll probably see Neo again, but I liked the fact that Neo knew his destruction was the only way to get to Smith.

The Neo/Smith battle. I'm a little torn, because I think it went on too long, but I love the way they continually bang into eachother with no one winning. It shows that they truly are polar opposites of equal power.

Now, some stuff I didn't like...

To many "what about ..." questions. Merovingian, Persephone, Sereph, The Architect, The Twins!!, etc

Quickly explaining why Neo has powers outside of the Matrix. I understand that you don't want to make up an explanation that is too complicated, but "the powers of the one go back to yada yada yada" seemed to be a bit of thrown together info to me.

The war for Zion. Way too much of a bloated tech demo. Strategically nothing fancy happened until the Hammer came in and blew it's EMP, and yet they just kept showing Mifune yelling as he took down each successive Sentinel. Great looking action, just a little to much time taken to show it.

The end of the war. "The way is over! The war is over!" Just seemed a little anti-climactic. But that could just be me, this is something that may work better on another viewing.

I'm sure more thoughts will come later as the discussion picks up, but this is all that I can come up with now.

 

[JeffLl]

I think Paul summed it up well just now.

As for other comments, coming from someone who's seen it, I loved it and it's not that there was no payoff, I just think lots of people will be dissappointed with the payoff.

Also, call me crazy but during the Zion assault, while niobe is piloting towards the dock and the crew is on the guns shooting sentinels, I felt like that was homage to a degree to Star Wars where Han and Luke are shooting TIEs.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

Look...here is a foil for our hero...the Merovingian! He wants more power...therefore he must keep the Keymaker from Neo!

Now...audience must hate Merovingian and route for Neo!

Doesn't work for me, Marvin.

I'd agree with you if the Merovingian was ever set up as anything other than a secondary (almost tertiary) character. If that's all they ever said about Agent Smith I'd have more of a problem, but that would tie back into my Jedi reference...if Darth Vader was never given any motivation, I'd care, but I don't really wonder or care what Jabba or Boba Fett's or Greedo's motivations may have been other than money. It just isn't important to me from a minor character.

 

[ErichH]

Chris
Comment was not intended for you - just a general thought.
I only warmed to the first 2 films after owning the DVDs.
I think they're great work. M3 will prove to be the same.
E

 

[Mark McLeod]

My review is now up.

Mark McLeod - The Matrix Revolutions

 

[Ray_Gootz]

Okay i just saw it. As someone who loved reloaded, I have to say up until the end I loved the film. I got it. It was making sense but then....the movie ended with The oracle and the little Indian girl still in the matrix! I'llp ost more but it seems to me that we'll see more Matrix movies when the Brothers wallets feel thin. What a horrible way to end it. Revolution my ass.....

However if you walk out of the theather the minute Smith touches Neo, sit in your car and make up your own ending the movie kicks ass.

 

[Rob Varto]

Mark, thanks for the review. I think (and I have not seen the film yet) that most people might dislike the film because it sounds like the main characters don't have a big enough role in the final film. The most enjoyable parts of all movies are when we can see our favorite characters developed - it sounds like, from your review, that we're left with watching the secondary characters carry the lead. I had huge hopes for this film, but now I don't - I don't want to watch a video game called Matrix Revolutions.

 

[FredK]

Enjoyed it, compared to Reloaded there aren't as many heavy scenes that fall flat (Neo figuring out the Oracle isn't human as a great example someone posted in this thread, shoulda been huge, but had little emotional impact). I love movies that are true to themselves (hey, I still like Tron when I need a blue vector experience) and Revolutions is no let down to Matrix fans.

There could be a seperate (serious) thread on comparing the Matrix franchise to SW, because they're really the only 2 original movie franchises to be done at this scale.

well, thats fine and dandy, but again...it sounds alot like the SW fans rationalizing the 'so amazingly inferior in every way that it actually degrades the previous better entries by association' Jedi.

ROTJ was the exact complement to Revolutions. Revolutions (and Reloaded by not providing a good setup) somehow took the bite out of the Neo v Smith angle. But I cared about Zion and the machines (01 was under-used, shoulda been 1/2 the movie). In ROTJ I didn't care about the Ewoks or anything about Jabba's folk, but the whole movie (thanks to a great setup by ESB) was all about building up to Luke v Vader. And what a payoff that Neo v Smith just didn't have.

I know Neo & Smith had the nemesis relationship on paper but it doesn't come across well in either Matrix sequel. That's my biggest letdown. But the movie was visually beautiful, and because of that I'm happy with it.

BTW, I didn't need any more of the Merovingian... his Reloaded expose on causal relationships was laughable (and getting worse with each viewing). I would have liked... more 01 and even more Neo.

And I'd look forward to Matrix: Resolutions when the W's do go poor.

 

[JonathonSan]

Just got back from seeing it. I LOVED it. I must say that I am a diehard Matrix fan through and through. Reloaded threw me at first...I liked it but it wasn't until I put to rest my expectations did I realise how much I would grow to love it. Revolutions was a bit different to me, just as Reloaded was different from the original. It doesn't have the depth of Reloaded, or psuedo-depth as many say, not really any long and windy speaches about the nature of things...but what it had was enough. The questions that were posed that were important were answered, those that were not, were not essential to the overall story. That does not mean they were worthless in Reloaded. Despite the lack of Merovingian in Revolutions, I still liked his speil in Reloaded. The action is incredible in this...the drama...well it is Sci-Fi, but let me just say that to compare it to Episode 2 is a great disservice to the the Matrix. My favorite part was the incredible Zion siege...all of it. My least favorite...the Neo/Smith fight was too short. I cannot wait to see it again.

Jonathon

 

[Nick T Robot]

I could spend the next 3 months reading all the reviews linked or posted on HTF.

I still have 4 hours until I see it and post my own opinion. Then all debate can end :wink: :p)

 

[Greg*go]

4 hours 51 minutes and counting!!

It looks so different the first time you're back.

 

[BertFalasco]

I still can't believe it's all over...

Since no one answered my last questions [in earlier post], I'll ask something else.

Can someone explain to me specifically/in detail/in depth what was unique about this NEO, of course this Matrix cycle is different, hence Revolutions etc. What I absolutely know for sure are :

• Chose the other door due to love, what the word implies.
• He is a part of the Matrix and is always tapped in
• He can stop the machines with supernatural power

What else makes him unique?

Question : If/When every human in the Matrix is freed, and they rehabillitate, etc. will they be able to do the things Morpheus/Trinity/Neo... can do in the Matrix (jump high and such)?

Question : How do the machines get the humans to reproduce, the humans don't just spontaneously end up in a machine tub in the middle of a story machine field.

 

[Nick T Robot]

Question : How do the machines get the humans to reproduce, the humans don't just spontaneously end up in a machine tub in the middle of a story machine field.

Test tube babies: Eggs and sperm would be extracted mechanically.

 

[JonathonSan]

I think the difference in Neo is his love for Trinity. Not sure about previous versions of the Matrix, but I always assumed Neo's ressurection and subsequent dive into Smith was a first for the cycle. The imprint of Smith onto Neo and vice versa is also "new". That is just my theory, of course, since Smith is Neo's negative
, as revealed to us in Revolutions, was he always in previous versions? Don't know...from Neo's death on it may be somewhat new territory, or not...

Jonathon