***Official THE MATRIX Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Brian_J]

the only part of the Matrix that wasn't cool was that incredibly sappy hollywood, "love conquers all" ending. Trinity talks to Neo while's he's in the Matrix, so she's just talking to his body. Kind of like the idea that a coma patient might hear you.

I don't know how many people will agree with you but I for one do not. A movie that kills off its main character and then resurrects him is not what I would call "Hollywood Formulaic."

Brian

 

[TheoGB]

What? You're joking! The Matrix is totally let down by that ending. The only line that drops the movie for me is "Neo, you can't die because I love you."
Jesus, hand me the sick bag, please. Yeuck!

 

[Scott Weinberg]

What I don't get, is that, if Neo is faster than anyone in the world (fast enough to dodge bullets...or even stop them completely) then what's the point of the sequels? We know that Neo can not be hurt...What are the story lines going to be about?

By that line of reasoning, there should never have been a Superman 2, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, From Russia with Love...or a Friday the 13th Part 3!
Regarding The Matrix: This specific thread is a perfect example of why this movie will be remembered as a classic. It excites people, and it incites discussion and debate.
Plus c'mon! How many fun action flicks actually have a brain in their heads? The Matrix has more subtext and challenging concepts than the entire filmography of Sylvester Stallone!

 

[Michael Tucker]

What I don't get, is that, if Neo is faster than anyone in the world (fast enough to dodge bullets...or even stop them completely) then what's the point of the sequels? We know that Neo can not be hurt...What are the story lines going to be about?

Well, apparently Neo can't be hurt inside the Matrix, but I suppose he can be hurt in the real world. And hey, we still have to see the downfall of the machines.

 

[Ashley Seymour]

David and Paul,
I just ran a search under Kurzweil and this was the only thread that mentioned his name. I ran a Google search and have been reading his bio and the discussions of futurists. I am interested also in reading The Age of Spiritual Machines.
I have wanted to start a thread discussing the future 150 years out. I'm starting to get a better feel of the movie The Matrix and will rent it again to see what is going on.
In 20 years, we will reach limits in reducing the size of memory chips. But then, other devices will come on line and cause an even faster reduction in cost per bit, but with faster processors and more memory. In 40 years we will hit the first threshold of AI.
What Kurzweil is predicting is that technological growth is not only exponential, but the rate of increase also grows exponentially. Technologies build on advances to the point that we can't even begin to envision what our society will be in 100 years.
It is spooky that on the way down and back to Salt Lake on the 19th and 22nd I was thinking of how to look up on the internet any information on futurists.
It seems that AI and Virtual Reality will not be isolated things in the future. They will take up the primary focus of our lives.

 

[Bradley Batt]

What I don't get, is that, if Neo is faster than anyone in the world (fast enough to dodge bullets...or even stop them completely) then what's the point of the sequels? We know that Neo can not be hurt...What are the story lines going to be about?

And this is why you and millions of other people are going to go see it!

 

[Stephen_Dar]

On the AI question, I wouldn't read too much into developments like the human genome project. What we're doing with that is actually quite crude in my view. 50 years ago we finally identified the molecule that carries the information needed to build and run the human body, and it took us the last 50 years just to identify all the atoms in that molecule (well, to approximate, since its different in each person). Not much of an accomplishment, actually, in the absolute sense, although certainly one that we needed to achieve. The hype, frankly, is all generated by the biotech industry (my industry) in an attempt to, you guessed it, make money on the stock market.

I feel the 90s hype about computing technology is identical in its overblown character. We had computers that could run simple calculations 50 years ago, and in the last half century all we've done is make them go faster. I don't really see them doing anything fundamentally different (though I'm no computer scientist). And, the computer power we have now strikes me as so crude as to be almost useless for any of the more advanced multi-media uses we are all interested in. All they can do is simple calculations, very handy in some businesses, but not useful outside of that. My suspicion based on this is that radical developments in AI and the like are at least a century or 2 away. Life in 2100 will look almost exactly like it does in 2002 I suspect. My 2 cents on a fun discussion.

I agree about the movie - the 2 things that jar you are the humans as batteries thing and the you-can't-die-I-love-you ending scene. But, if you ignore those 2, the rest holds together awesomely. They actually found believable reasons for all those impossible stunts, so you don't have to suspend disbelief during any of it. First DVD I bought.

 

[Bill Harris]

seeing how i havent seen The Matrix in maybe 6 months. doesnt morpheus say something about him or neo dying..then neo gets truly powerful after he gets shot and dies. or something like that...going to watch it tonight

 

[Ashley Seymour]

But right now paradigm shifts are really doubling every ten years. Which means the next ten years will be like 20 years. And that paradigm shift rate is very constant. You can go back to the beginning of technology… in fact you can go back to the beginning of biological evolution: the first paradigm shifts took billions of years for the first cells to form. The cambrian explosion, paradigm shifts took only tens of millions of years. In fact you see if you put this on an appropriate exponential graph, the evolution of technology just continues that exponential, rapidly increasing pace of paradigm shifts from biology evolution tables. Human created technology is really the cutting edge of evolution on this planet. If we go out sufficiently into the 21st century and follow this progression of the acceleration of paradigm shifts, we see that the 21st century is actually about 20 thousand years long. We'll make 20 thousand years of progress in the 21st century at current rates of progress. That's why the future is startling. That's why we tend to underestimate what's feasible in the long term. We overestimate what's feasible in the very short term because we tend to leave things out of our plans. But this exponential growth of technology and of the pace of technology is what makes the future surprising.

Ray Kurtzweil

And we could go on with more of what the future will bring

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

I'm trying to comprehend what exactly IS Neo? Is he a normal human being that when plugged into the matrix program, is able to manipulate and see past the encoding? Was he born with a gift of a mind capable of altering the matrix? If that's the case, then the AI did a poor job of creating a virus prevention program. (Especially since this virus has a VERY short life expectancy)

I think that if a machine is granted an individual conscienceness, why would it try and exterminate mankind? The machines would have a better chance of survival and growth if they are teamed to coexist with humans. I also think humans shouldn't fear AI because fear's a path of the dark side. jk

One thing the machines lack greatly if they could spawn would be mutation. Unless machines are able to evolve into biological entities capable of random mutations I do not think they will last long as a species.

On another note, I don't think we have to worry about AI now since all I can think about is subliminal control. The only output my computer has is my printer and monitor so it can either print threatening notes, or produce seizure inducing light shows or act as a hypnotic codec.

hehe

Why should we worry about any of this... we'll all be dead before we can make our computers jealous and upset.

 

[David Forbes]

Stephen, speed has a heck of a lot to do with it. I'm surprised you don't think that the speed increase is any big deal. Computers got incredibly faster and cheaper at the same time. The speed increase alone is an astonishing feat.

Get the Kurzweil book and read it. He can explain it a lot better than I can, but a lot of the book is a comparison of the functions of a human brain and how an artificial brain can either replicate its functions or improve them.

Chris, mutations are not necessary for evolution any longer in the human world. Mutations are random potshots, most of which are bad. Up until now, though, there was no other mechanism to effect change in the species as a whole.

But now there is. Humans are reaching the point where we will be able to alter our genetic structure (we already do this at a very crude level) to effect "improvements" in the overall design. Better vision, better hearing, the delay of sensescence, curing disease, etc. Mutations are no longer needed.

Machine intelligences will "design" their "offspring" to be better, more efficient, or do things they can't do. Evolution will speed up incredibly, and with a distinct purpose in mind rather than the randomness of mutation.

 

[Anthony Hom]

Theo,

Good to see a frank opinion about the ending to Matrix. I think most of the Matrix fans here think this film is so perfect, that they can't say anything bad about it. I think it excels in it's premise and most of the movie.

But I'll say it again, that ending scene where Trinity confesses her love to Neo while he's in the matrix is a sappy love story ending, not a cool sci-fi thinking ending. I think the creative ideas ran dry at that point, or the studio insisted on a "happy puppy dog" ending to save Neo. Surely they could have come up with a more clever ending than that.

Quote:

I don't know how many people will agree with you but I for one do not. A movie that kills off its main character and then resurrects him is not what I would call "Hollywood Formulaic."

Brian

----------------------------

Brian--- I didn't SAY the Matrix was formulaic, I said the ENDING was formula. Try reading more carefully next time.

I'm sorry, the Matrix is a great movie, but not a 100% perfect cool sci-fi film, it has it's flaws.

 

[Shawn C]

I have a question. If the people 'living' in the Matrix are oblivious to actually being 'in' the Matrix, does it matter? They have no concept of being in the Matrix and are living their lives the same way they would have. It's not like they are being individually 'controlled' in the Matrix.

I mean, in all reality, aren't they better off staying in the Matrix? The vision of the 'real' world that Morpheus showed Neo was pretty grim. Ruined cities, black skies. How do you suddenly 'wake-up' all of these people and expect them to re-build civilization? Could people even survive if they were awakened to the real world?

 

[David Forbes]

How do you know you're not in the Matrix right now?

 

[Joe_C]

First off, great thread

Quote:

That is one of the problems mentioned by Morpheus. Older individuals, especially, are more prone to attempt to hold on to the fake dreamworld and thus refuse to accept the "real world".

 

[Ashley Seymour]

With this discussion about AI and Futurists, I have been looking for a good site to discuss the effects of technology 150 years out into the future. There are predictions of the increase in the size and speed of memory with reductions in cost, but I have more of an interest in the the possibilities these changes can have on society. The Matrix is pretty interesting, but dramas are always set up showing advanced technology having a repressive effect on the human condition.

Anyone know of any good discussion sites regarding the future 100-200 years out?

Any interest in participating in one in the After Hours Lounge?

 

[Shawn C]

But I, for one, would not want that dreamworld to be my reality, no matter how closely it emulated the "real world".

Yeah, but you know that you are in the real world now. The thought of an 'alternate-reality' disturbs you. They have no concept that they are in the Matrix. They can't aspire to not live in the dream world because they know nothing of it, even though they are part of it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the Matrix, to them, IS reality. To them, there is no 'Matrix'. If a person is born, lives and dies within the Matrix, what difference does it make if they were disconnected from the so-called 'real-world'.

Is Morpheus and his crew going to do more harm than good in trying to shut the Matrix down? Are the people in the Matrix actually being opressed in any way? Are they somehow being abused?

Aren't they, in a twisted way, being saved from themselves and the environment that their ancestors created?

 

[paul o'donnell]

Neo is somewhat of a Deity at the close of the film. So perhaps the progression for the sequel would be to explore how susceptible humans are to becoming enamored in their own power. So maybe Neo will try to evoke change too rapidly and lose the faith of his friends and have a crisis of faith. Are the people in The Matrix happier with how it is? Even though we are only batteries, is it better that way. We believe we're happy. The film could be an analogy for life and self awareness.

or....

They could go into the Matrix and get stuck there somehow, and maybe Neo could lose his memory and be duped into working for the matrix. It could be a real adventure with talking donuts and such.

Well I'm done.

 

[Joe_C]

Shawn,
I agree to an extent, except that while they may not know the truth yet, Morpheus and crew are revealing it to them. He has yet to pull anyone out of the Matrix completely against their will. As far as we know, he always gave them the choice of taking the blue or the red pill. Granted, you are referring to the mass of people in the Matrix and not just the few he has recruited into his little group, but I think it still applies.
But think of it this way, you can go your whole life believing in something completely, let's say a certain religion or creed for example, devoting essentially everything you have to it. What happens if that belief is proven undeniably false? Would you be better off had you never learned that it was false, yet simply continued following it blindly? Obviously not (IMO anyways ). The Matrix is basically a belief that is uniformly adhered to. These people are blind to the truth, and living in a fabricated reality. Those in the real world are doing them a service by revealing the truth.
Honestly, I do understand what you're saying and I know a LOT of people who feel the same way. It takes a bit of philosophy (which I don't have) to adequately discuss this topic, I just hope what I had to say wasn't too disjointed. And for the record, I'd like to point out that I was not referring to any specific religion, or even religion in general. I was just using a point of reference that most people are familiar with

 

[JasonWW]

Is anyone actually familiar with the real "Matrix" that Technical Remote Viewers refer to? They say its the source of all information, past, present and future.

"The world's foremost remote viewing teacher, Edward A. Dames, Major, U.S. Army (Ret.), is the creator of Technical Remote Viewing. An original member of the U.S. Army prototype remote viewing training program, he subsequently served as the training and operations officer for the Defense Intelligence Agency's psychic intelligence (PSIINT) collection unit, and currently serves as executive director for the Matrix Intelligence Agency, a private consulting group."

These guys were formed during the Cold War and were a top secret US military unit for decades. The Russians also had a secret unit of remote viewers as well. I believe this is where the movies' concept of the "Matrix" was derived. If anyone has better info, please let me know.