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*** Official THE BOURNE SUPREMACY Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Lew

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This is the point of contention. Bourne is a trained (super-trained) professional. It is understood that he sees things more clearly, giving him the advantage over his 'ordinary' adversaries. We should be taken into his world of clarity (but not to close that is takes a half hour to see one punch thrown ala Matrix). The shots were antithetical to the whole notion of the Bourne character.

It is just bad film making, plain and simple!!

Lew
 

Zen Butler

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Yes, a normal Treadstone agent might see 2 punches ahead. Bourne has lived in a framented world of amnesia for 2 years. What is he seeing clear besides the mechanics?
 

Lew

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He is the best of the best of the best!! A normal Treadstone agent sees 2 punches, he sees four or five? Even though he has lost his memory of certain incidents, he still has his training, otherwise the character would not have be able to do the things he did! That is the point. Even if his memory is gone, he relies on his training and is able to work through the adversity.

If you are questioning the amnesia as a film plot, then that is a separate issue. This character still had his skills, as well as his language. What does he speak? English, German, French, Russian, etc... If it were a matter of mechanics, why weren't they gone and his skills diminished?

He had more than the mechanics, because if he didn't, he would not have gotten past the first adversary (actually, he never would have noticed him the first time and he would be dead in the first episode)! If he is the best, then he had more than mechanics. Also, the movie did a very good job of showing him thinking through issues (like the cell phone) and getting the advantage!

Lew
 

Zen Butler

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Valid arguments Lew as to the defintion Bourne's skills. Very well put. Although, were are swirling two arguments. I think we do(several times) throughout the two movies witness how advanced Bourne actually is.

I still don't see how you find, what I found, uncomfortable and claustrophobic camera work "rubbish." [I've been in many fights and the hand to hand scene sure was as frantic as any street or organized fight I've been in.] At least the punching sounds were not as exaggerated as typical Hollywood fare.

I'm gathering you find the filming style of the chase and fight scenes a tinge stylistic and unrelated to the plot?

Personally, I found them more realistic and it set this action/thriller heads above any I have seen in years.

It's easy to see where we disagree. This is on the way to a quote-reply, quote-reply circular blab fest though.
 

Lynda-Marie

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This is kind of off topic, but I just could not believe it.

I recently borrowed The Bourne Identity from a friend, who had been telling me over and over how great it was. I agreed, and immediately after watching it, decided to go to Amazon.com to see about not only getting the DVD for myself, but also to get the book.

ANYWAY, I put the query into Amazon's search feature, and lo and behold, right in the middle were a couple of "Sponsored links" one of which was an offer to download DVD quality copies of The Bourne Supremacy.

My first thought was, how is it that movie is now available for download so quickly since it had only been recently released? Second thought, as I wrote an inquiry to Amazon.com about whether or not it was on the up and up was, "Jeez, if it's NOT on the up and up, these pirates sure have BALLS of solid stone to be advertising it openly on a legit site."
 

TheLongshot

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See, I have a different view on Bourne's abilities. His fighting abilities are so ingraned in him that most things with him are pure instinct and muscle memory. That was pretty well established in the first film. So, everything flying fast and furious is very consistant with Bourne. He "knows" what the proper response to certain actions are, so it would all go by very quickly, with very little thought.

Jason
 

Lew

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I agree that it is automatic, however, I would equate it more to another sense! When the need arose, he would go into his "zone" and he would be able to sense the defense needed for the circumstance. This is evident when he pulls out his "real" passport. He is making conscience decisions based on this "sense" developed from training.

I reiterate; The scenes should slow down for the viewer, not speed up. Kinda like Matrix, but not that slow. We need to be brought into their world to give us understanding of what they are going through and try to place us in their head. It should not be sped up so that we are totally lost!!!

Lew
 

Holadem

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I have nothing substantial to add to this thread, except to say: was that a wicked car chase or what?! :eek:

--
H
 

Ben Osborne

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Whether or not the audience needs to be shown the action from the perspective of the hero is an artistic decision. There is no rule that says a good movie must do that.

Even in the Matrix, there's only one scene (as far as I can remember) where the action is slowed down for the viewer to see the action as Neo does. So even the makers of that movie didn't see the need to put the audience in the head of the protagonist during a fight scene more than once.
 

Brent Hutto

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Your phrasing makes it seem as though you're quoting a general principle of some kind when actually you're just saying that you would prefer those scenes to slow down. Obviously there are many of us who think the artistic decision to depict them as a onrushing blur makes The Bourne Supremacy a better movie.

I can't recall another movie in which I experienced the action with the same intensity and sense of things happening out of control. It's no small thing for a movie to provide a unique experience nowadays when they all seem produced to a very short list of formulas.
 

Zen Butler

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Thank you Brent, for your words. Very well put.

I think both Bourne films were "unique" in their action. Something real and not overblown. Crashes were crashes and not some jump contest with mid-air explosions.

Can't wait to see this one again.
 

Holadem

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The more I think about this flick the more I like it. Excellent stuff.

What I like best is that it's all business:

- No bimbos whose only purpose is to make guys drool and to serve as hostage for the baddies at the end.

- No cutesy, sympathetic supporting character as comic relief.

- Heck, no comic relief of any kind...

- No one liners.

I have no idea how close to the book the movie is, but kudos to the screewriters and whoever greenlit this as is. An action movie solidly geared toward adults, and it works.

Bourne is the man :emoji_thumbsup:

--
H
 

Patrick Sun

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Just to clarify, "autonomic" isn't quite the same as "automatic". When I described Bourne's fight/flight responses as "autonomic" I mean it comes second nature to him, with nary a thought required for him to accomplish what is needed at the crucial moment in time. Our breathing is an autonomic reflex that our body does for us without us needing to think about breathing. That's what I was addressing when describing the training that Bourne received to turn him into the best Treadstone agent.
 

Ben Osborne

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Was Bourne really the best Treadstone agent because he's naturally a better fighter (better at thinking ahead)? The movies don't really make it clear why or how Bourne is better (he presumably received the same training as the other agents), but maybe it's because of his willingness to question his programming by the agency. The fact that he has moral problems with assassinating people might indicate that he's willing to question what he's been programmed to do and how to react, whereas the other agents behave robotically as they've been told to. This might be why Bourne can improvise better during fights and beat the other agents, even when he doesn't have any physical or training advantage.
 

Citizen87645

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Good observation Ben. His creation of a contingency plan (the implant and the safe deposit box stash) also reflects a "higher order" of thinking the other agents did not display.
 

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