***Official SUPER SIZE ME Discussion Thread (2 Viewers)

[Paul.S]

Chris et al.:

Oops, you've done it again.

That's a disingenuous dodge using buzz phrases on issues that deserve a more thorough response but, based upon your other posts to this thread, I'm sure we'd disagree and that I would argue you need to complicate your thinking by perhaps not always reading books on complicated sociocultural issues by people you're predisposed to agreeing with.

-p

 

[Ricardo C]

*goes into kitchen, brings out lovely black pot and kettle set*

I take offense at your suggestion that I need to "complicate my thinking". It assumes that 1) I hold the views I do out of ignorance, and 2) that I haven't actually actually given any serious thought to the issues.

Are you only willing to give me credit for being an independent thinker if I renounce enough of my individuality to embrace your worldview? Kinda contradictory, don't you think?

I didn't give your arguments a drawn-out response simply because I don't think it's worth the effort, given that we're unlikely to sway one another's point of view. We stand too far apart on this one.

And I'll wait patiently for any reliable links to the Auschwitz McD's fiasco.

 

[Ricardo C]

ps--



Tell you what, hold onto that pot-and-kettle set. It seems you're gonna need it...

 

[Chris_Morris]

And the need to bring in political leanings into a non-political thread is?


Ricardo, I could not find any links to the Auschwitz incident either, but found several comparing McDs and the meat industry to Auschwitz :rolleyes


Chris

 

[Richard Kim]

Regarding the first example: if McDonald's pulled this kind of crap at Arlington National Cemetary or the Pearl Harbor Memorial or the World Trade Center site, would you still be making this same arguement?

 

[Mike Broadman]

This statement would only have any validity if Spurlock was actually lying about or pretending to be depressed to his doctor.
What we eat has been linked to every bodily function, including our nervous system. People who improve their diet have, across the board, reported improved emotional states. I personally have experienced this. Spurlock ate nothing but crap all the time.
So you're willing to believe that he bullshitted his way into a false diagnosis over the simpler explanation, one which at least corellates to scientific fact- which is, to put it simply, that crumby food makes you feel like crap.

I also don't understand the need to bring in "free enterprise" and always shout "personal responsibility." Again- NOBODY is arguing those points. I will also repeat, again, that Spurlock himself concludes the film with a call for all of us to take care of ourselves. If we can agree on personal responsibility- and yes, believe it or not, we do all agree on that- does corporate responsibility also not have a role to play?

And I'm still waiting for someone- not necessarily here, but anyone anywhere- to provide for a solid defense of McD's and the fast food industry's marketing barrage towards children. Children do not understand what marketing is all about. They are too innocent to appreciate the subtleties of manipulation, toying with our emotions for personal gain, or even that something that tastes so good can be so bad. A child will have seen 10,000 adverts for food, 95% of which are for sugary crap, junk or fast food. Everybody makes a big deal out of children seeing sex or violence (and of course that should be controlled), but not about what shapes their diet for probably the rest of their lives?

 

[Chris_Morris]

If it was done legally? Yes. I would not agree with it, but it would still be a legitimate advertising campaign, same as the travel groups I've seen advertising "Tour New York and see GROUND ZERO!"

Still there has been no proof offered up to verify this incident, and it seems many forget that each McDs is a franchise, and an advertising decision like that would be done by the franchise owner, not the "evil corporation".

Chris

 

[Ricardo C]

How does the mere presence of a fast food restaurant affect your community on the same level as a hypothetical polluting factory, a porn shop, or the zoning issues associated with a school?

The word of the day is "perspective". Get a dictionary. Jebus.

 

[Richard Kim]

Well, as Spurlock points out in his film, there is also the fact that the food served to kids in schools is unhealthy, fast food type fare, and is supplied for the most part by corporations who provide substantial funding to educational programs, which makes the schools reluctant to switch to more healthier fare.

 

[Ricardo C]

Again, where's the gun to the parents' heads forcing them to let the kids eat that food? And as I said... You as a parent are in control of the other two meals your kid consumes. I'm having a hard time seeing the threat.

 

[Richard Kim]

Perhaps the parents are poor and must rely on the school cafeteria program. And parents can't be there to stop kids from buying junk food at the cafeteria or at vending machines located in school if they want it.

 

[Richard Kim]

It should also be pointed out that in the film, Spurlock goes into a school for agressive and troubled youth, and they recently switched thier cafeteria food from fast food type fare to to a more healther one. When they did this, the kids acted up less, and performed better in the classroom. So it would seem that the type of food schools serve does make a difference.

But then, I'm sure detractors of the film will say that it was staged or some other excuse to explain it.

 

[Ricardo C]

AGAIN... Cafeteria food accounts for one meal a day, at least where I'm from. You can still balance it out, poor or not.

So many adults complaining about this, even though they went through the same situation and grew up healthy enough. The PC Era is a weird little thing.

 

[Richard Kim]

Well, where I'm from, school cafeteria food accounts for TWO meals a day, breakfast and lunch. And for the poor, thats 2/3 of their food for the day consisting of an unhealthy diet.

 

[Ricardo C]

Richard, you got it. I do doubt Spurlock, and I do call Moore-like shenanigans. I'd like to see the studies that prove that the kids' beahvior was directly influenced by the food they consumed. I'm not saying it's not possible, it just sounds entirely too convenient.

 

[Richard Kim]

...while there are many others who went through the same same situation and are unhealty and dying. This has nothing to do with "The PC Era."

 

[Jodee]

Hmmm, I guess its entirely outside the realm of possibility that maybe they could be right, isn't it?

God forbid the film-maker (who is not even a vegetarian) call a spade a spade. Should he have not even mentioned these things, just because PETA also claims this?

If that's the case, then I guess he should have also left out the stuff about cholesterol and weight gain as well, since PETA also makes those points as well. :rolleyes

I personally don't agree with many of PETA's tactics, but you can't just dismiss every single thing they say because you disagree with other things. They make some very valid points about the Standard American Diet's reliance on animal products.

I am a big nutrition junkie (I read everything I can on the subject) and I agree with their nutritional points. My main "beef' with them is that come from a animal-rights standpoint first, and the health benefits second, but that is their perogative as an animal-rights group. I think we need to get Americans to eat more plant foods for their own health, people won't do it for the animal's sake.

As far as the film is concerned, I really enjoyed it. My one complaint is he did not address an important point that one of his doctors briefly mentioned: how fast food companies have a greater affect on poorer communities. I think fast food is one of the main reasons we are one of the only countries in the world whose poor people are also our fattest people. There are many poor neighborhoods where you can find lots of fast food eateries, but very few places that sell decent fresh produce. It is also marketed extensively in poorer areas and to many people, it is the cheapest, easiest way to eat.

I would have also liked to see the filmmaker address things like government subsidies and how the government sabotages its own nutrition advice by heavily subsiding meat, dairy, and corn (high fructose corn syrup) over fruits and vegetables. I was disgusted to read how the dairy industry (which is taxpayer subsidized) gave millions of dollars to Burger King to promote a new cheeseburger which resulted in a huge contract for the dairy industry (and made the burgers all that more fattening.)

 

[Ricardo C]

ok, I concede the point.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

For a fascinating look at McDonald's corporate gamesmanship, spend a while surfing through this site
http://www.mcspotlight.org/
It's a site run by Helen Steele and Dave Morris, the "McLibel Two" that McDonald's tried to destroy for distributing leaflets exposing their corporate deviancy in the U.K. There's a tonne of fascinating stuff on this site, including links to the documentary that was made about their ordeal, but you might wanna start with the "start here" link on the left side to get a feel for how best to tackle the staggering amount of information contained there. This duo was featured extensively in Eric Schlosser's book Fast Food Nation and it was there that I learned of this site.

Here's a direct link to the pamphlet they distributed that launched one of the biggest corporate trials in U.K. history. It's absolutely appalling what McDonald'd did to these people, including paying the police to surveil them (which was proven) in light of how little they've really done to combat Spurlock outside of kill the Supersize menu and add "go-active" Happy Meals. Perhaps they don't want this whole ugly affair brought up again in our part of the world?
http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/pretrial/factsheet.html

And here's a link to their complete "What's New" page which is very current and lists a jaw-dropping number of articles related to McDonalds practices and lawsuits over the past few years (including articles on the case brought by the two fat girls in Sprulock's film). The information in these articles are great boon to those of you who can't afford the time or money to read every newspaper and magazine or watch every TV news program in the world to find out just how rotten Big Business can really be. Just because you don't hear about it in your neck of the woods, doesn't mean it isn't happening:
http://www.mcspotlight.org/new.shtml

I've read a lot of the material on this site and have come away disgusted with big business in general, and McDonald's in particular, every time. On a global scale, it's really a lot worse than we realize.

 

[Jodee]

I think the reason they don't try the same tactics here is the huge difference in libel laws in the US compared to the UK.

In the US, speaking the truth is a protected defense against libel, which is not the case in the UK.

If they had tried a similar libel lawsuit here, it would have quickly been thrown out for having no merit.