Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) (1 Viewer)

[Chuck Mayer]

The idea of arguing is good. What was said is pedantic. Olivier couldn't have sold the line. I almost hear it in GL's voice Carl, reword it to your taste. If I ever say anything of value, rest assured it was stolen from smarter posters than I

It's a great sequence in a great film. The line just stands out as, well, moronic.

 

[MikeRS]

Lucas has tendency to make sure certain themes are CLEARLY spelled out in the dialogue (READ: unsubtle). I think he does it for the benefit of the kids.

It definitely leads to clunky dialogue.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Call me an idiot, whatever, but that line never bothered me. I think it has its place...maybe it could have been placed better elsewhere, I don't know.

 

[Matthew_Def]

Well, Chris, I think that line could have had some place in the film. Maybe in a scene where Anakin and Obi-wan discuss their political views over a cup of jawa juice. I can just see Anakin sipping his drink, pinky pointing out, and delivering the line in the snootiest way.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

I just watched the "From my point of view" scene comparing it to the script, and, while it's still not a good line, I think it works slightly better in the script, simply because of one crucial cut that was made in the final film that damages the line...

The first part of his line, "From the Jedi point of view", at least gives him a reason to be mentioning points of view. I agree, in the film as it is, he has no reason to be talking about his point of view because he believes he is absolutely right. But if he starts by saying "Well that's your point of view" to dismiss the criticism of Obi-Wan, then the line makes a bit more sense.

It's still not a good line either way, but it makes more sense in the script.

 

[Chris Atkins]

This is where I don't agree. I think the line absolutely (ha!) does have a place in the film. You see, Obi-Wan is the one who espouses this "point of view" philosophy, and he undoubtedly trained Anakin in such a view of the world. I think it adds a nice bit of irony (and helps to establish that Obi-Wan "failed" in Anakin's training) to have Anakin throw his philosophy back at him.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Great points, Chris.

 

[Richard Kim]

Qui-Gon also passes down the point of view philosophy to Obi-Wan, who in turn hands it down to Anakin and Luke. Also, let's not forget that Palpatine tells Anakin that "good is a point of view" during the opera scene.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

None of which makes sense in the "dark side is absolute" defense that people throw up when discussing Anakin's immediate turn from stopping Mace to killing children in one hour. That's absolute. Anakin's mindset is absolute. It does not even OCCUR to Anakin that OW might be right...that any POV is right except his.

The line stands out because it is total opposition, philosophically, from the actions Anakin has recently committed. And OW discussed POV in the OT. I don't recall a significant scene in the PT where Anakin and OW debate POVs. Too much fan gesticulation is required for that line to be anything other than completely absurd in context.

MikeRS nailed why it's there. So the kiddies understand what is going on. In terms of organic screenwriting...it's terrible.

 

[Doug Miller]

I watched this again last night, this time watching it with my wife, who hadn't seen it. I was watching, and a creeping feeling came up on me. Embarassment.

This movie has gotten more painful with every viewing. I feel like I'm watching a High School play; the acting and dialogue is just really, really bad. The final duel that I originally really, really liked, comes off now as poorly staged and quite frankly, ridiculous. The lava flow, robots, jumping off of huge platforms falling down a lava waterfall, swinging on ropes and fighting (just cut the other dudes rope!). It's gotten to the point that I don't think I can watch it anymore.

Read my past posts, I liked this movie OK when it came out, but now that everyone has been posting again recently I felt like watching it again. It's bad. I'm going to give Attack of the Clones another try (and fast forward through Sam's Diner and the Library parts) and see if I feel any different. I can't even watch Phantom Menace if Darth Maul isn't there.

Ugh. I'm on the verge of just selling these. (Still love the originals though!)

Doug

 

[TravisR]

I agree. It's almost as if they have some kind of mystical power that enables them to perform superhuman feats. Oh wait, they do.

 

[Richard Kim]

The thing is though is that even though Anakin has turned to the dark side, the good part of him hasn't completely been destroyed, and feels conflicted as a result. Look at the scene after Anakin murders the Seperatists. He's crying, clearly distressed at what he has just done. Also, Anakin turns his head away in shame when Padme tells him about the youngling slaughter. Anakin's mindset is NOT absolute.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I believe it is. It does not mean he feels no remorse. It means that outwardly, he knows he is right. There is NO POSSIBILITY he is wrong, no chance he might have made mistakes. He's MURDERED now. Most of us will blindly argue with loved ones over minor things, such as where the car keys were or who is to blame for forgetting to TiVo something. Out of principle, we'll argue that, more strenuously than ever if we have a doubt.

Even if you are correct, in his words to OW, Anakin would never let on that he thinks he might be wrong. Psychologically, his wording makes no sense. Again, to murder a room full of children requires a mindset far beyond even "save your wife". I know many think I overstate that point, but it's in the film for a reason. Anakin is G-O-N-E. Of course part of him is good (we are told this at least), so his remorse might be real. But remorse is NOT doubt.

 

[Chris Atkins]

I'm not one of those people either.

I think Anakin's turn started back in AOTC when he slaughtered the Tuskens...at that point, he was on the slippery slope to the dark side ("once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny..."). It was consuming him with lust for greed, power, etc. That doesn't mean that he would admit that everything he is doing is evil...that's why the point of view line still makes sense...to Anakin, he was doing the right thing. Anakin didn't KNOW he was gone...that's why his wife and friend had to intervene. From his point of view, everyone else was wrong.

Could GL have found a better place to put the line? Maybe. Did the line have its place in the story? Absolutely.

 

[MikeRS]

This "philosophy" was a pivotal catalyst IN Anakin ultimately justifying his greedy choice (Probably another reason Lucas felt the need to emphasize it).

Basically, the moment Anakin sees Mace decide to do what he knows is considered un-Jedi-like (killing an unarmed man), all bets are off in terms of the virtue of the Jedi. The Jedi not trusting him up until that point left this one event to be the nudge to push him out of the light. It's not that Anakin respects the Sith over the Jedi now - it's that neither has the moral upper hand from his perspective(The High ground ).

And considering the Jedi can't help him with his "problem"/obsession....

HE CHOSE SITH.

 

[Tim Glover]

Good discussion. Not sure where I stand on it though...the huge cheeseburger I ate earlier is blocking my vision and lowered my midi-chlorian count.

The fact that Anakin even considers murdering the Jedi in the temple shows he's obsessed with saving Padme and achieving "new powers". All of us would do what it takes to try and save someone if we could. Downright slaugher though? No. Our conscious steps in just in the nick of time when our passion gets a hold of us.

I remember Tom Cruise in War Of The Worlds. I do believe in that instance, he did what he had to do to save his daughter. (the scene with Tim Robbins). Tough call...and easy to get self-righteous but I would have done the same thing.

I'm not sure where Anakin started turning...truly turning? That is open for debate. Didn't Lucas once say that the first step was CHOOSING to leave his mother and go with QGJ? Certainly the Tusken slaughter was a big one. Marrying Padme was another...

 

[Ricardo C]

Although he'd flirted with the Dark Side before, I believe Anakin finally put himself on the fast track to hell when he killed Dooku.

His earlier actions all pale in comparison. His secret marriage? Hey, who's to say it isn't the Jedi that are wrong to forbid emotional attachements? It was Luke's emotional attachment to his father (and vice versa) that ended up saving both of them in the end. The slaughter of the Tusken Raiders? Although an unspeakably evil act by our standards, the Tuskens are regarded as animals within the Star Wars mythology. Not as primitives, or savages, but as violent beasts that cannot be reasoned with. A piss-poor excuse for us, but within the culture portrayed in the films, a perfectly reasonable one.

When Anakin killed a defeated, unarmed foe, not in the heat of the moment, but years after the fact, was the first time he embraced his baser instincts. From then on, he was easy prey for Palpatine.

 

[Joel...Lane]

Love your sig Ricardo.

 

[StephenC]

Did anybody watch ROTS on HBO-HD? 5.1 and OAR!!! INCREDIBLE!

 

[BrettGallman]

Stephen, I caught it. I planned on watching a few minutes because I figured it would be cropped. To my delight, it wasn't. It looked absolutely incredible. Here's hoping Lucas won't take his time in bringing out the Saga on one of the high-def formats like he did with standard definition.