*** Official PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: Dead Man's Chest Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Greg.K]

I thought Jack said that if Will killed Jones the kraken would still be out there and would continue to chase him. He wanted Jones to call it off first. So yeah, bargaining chip, but it seemed pretty weak to me.

 

[BrettGallman]

Oh, okay. That does make sense I guess. That was pretty much my only major complaint with the whole movie, but I guess it's more of a minor thing now.

Overall, I thought this was a fun movie. I was never a HUGE fan of the first movie, as I felt like the plot of that one was kind of belabored by some excess fat. This one was just as long (if not longer), but it felt leaner, for the most part. It's not something that will get a repeat viewing from me, but I'll definately buy it on DVD, and be there on opening day for Pirates 3.

 

[Josh.C]

Brett,

I gave up trying to post a lengthy review after two failed attempts(crappy internet connection), but I asked the same question you did. Seeing your post makes me feel much better that I am not the only one that thought this way.

It really took away from that whole fight scene with Jack, Will, and the X Commodore. While it was a great sword fight scene, the whole time I was wondering why Jack would stop Will from destroying the heart.

Greg, I don't remember Jack saying anything about the Kraken being the reason, but I'm sure I could have missed it. Since Davy seems to be the one that controls the beast, its hard to understand why it would be an issue to Jack if Davy was dead.

I'd be willing to listen to others thoughts, but this really felt like a stretch to me.

JC

 

[Mike.P]

Indeed, Jack's reason was to call off the Kraken, as he put it.

Kind of weak, really, as the other reasons to have the heart (to release his father from his curse in Will's case, or to command the sea's in the Commadore's case), were far more compelling, at least in my opinion.

 

[Malcolm R]

Because Jack has the "black mark" on his palm. The krakken follows the mark. If Davy Jones is killed before he removes the mark, the beast follows Jack forever.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Except that the East India Trade Company is a legitimate business which is losing money because of piracy. They have completely legitimate reasons for ridding the world of piracy. Nothing in the film tries to convince us otherwise.

I imagine the writers just expected us to think that they are bad BECAUSE they are a company (and a big one, which is an even worse sin). Silly writing, one of my main complaints about the script.

 

[Malcolm R]

Why not? It works that way with Wal-Mart in the present day.

 

[BrettGallman]

Okay, I never quite got that the kraken follows the black mark. I'll catch it on the second viewing, I'm sure.

Speaking of the kraken, one of my favorite moments in the movie was when they were discussing the pronunciation of the word. The whole movie, characters were saying it with a short "a" sound, and I was like it's KRAKEN with a LONG A, isn't it?

 

[Chris Atkins]

Malcolm:

The mantra of "a corporation must be bad because it is big" is generalization and cliche of the highest order. It doesn't make for intelligent film anymore than it makes for intelligent policy.

 

[Chris Atkins]

One of the many plot problems I had with the film.

1. To address this one in particular, it makes no sense based on what is presented in the movie. In the movie, we are shown that the Kraken only attacks ships when Jones' crew uses the big wheel to call Kraken. Ergo, if Jones is dead then no order to call the kraken. Sparrow's reasoning makes no sense, though I supposed it's possible that the third film may address this.

2. Having Barbossa come back to life with no explanation (now) is jarring enough; but then using him to create hope for Sparrow is even more jarring. First, why would we think that he would want to rescue Sparrow? Second, why would Sparrow's crew want to follow him anyway?

3. The voodoo priestess. Who is she? How does Sparrow know her? Where does she live? It looked like the Louisiana bayou, but that would be a long distance to sail from the Caribbean using 17th-18th century naval tech.

4. The whole Davey Jones subplot. Again, who is he? How does Sparrow know him? Why does Sparrow have the mark, etc. We are told all this but not shown. Granted, the first film does the same thing with the Black Pearl subplot, this kind of thing is less forgiveable in the second film because the second film should be building on the foundation of the first, using our known history of the characters to build on instead of trying to erect a new foundation (an example in another film is the whole "program" subuniverse first introduced in Matrix Reloaded which--while fascinating--almost completely severed the plot of the second film from the first).

All this said, I loved the movie because it was tons of FUN. That's saying a lot considering the plot structure problems in the film itself. And I am seeing it a second time tonight so we'll see how it holds up.

 

[BrettGallman]

Well, from the sounds of things, Barbossa seems to be more interested in his ship than Jack, but yeah, I definately wonder why Jack's crew would trust him. Unless, of course, there's something we don't know yet about Barbossa.

And I thought the Kraken only came if summoned as well, as it attacked other ships even though no one had "the black mark."

 

[Chris Atkins]

Brett:

We certainly don't ever see the Kraken attack Sparrow just because he has the black mark...in every case, the Kraken attacks because it was summoned by Jones (the first time it attacks might be different, but I can't remember).

Even the last attack, where it attacks the Black Pearl, and eventually takes Sparrow, is predicated on a summons by Jones, et al.

 

[Josh.C]

Props to you if you were able to deduct that from the movie's poor job of explaining anything. Here's the problem I have with that. Jack had the black mark for a long time, and was out to sea. The Kraken never bothered him once, until Davy Jones's crew did the wheel thing and called him out. So your reasoning (or the films reasoning) doesn't really hold water. No pun intended

 

[BrettGallman]

Yep. I took the "black mark" to mean that Jones could somehow track Sparrow, and THEN summon the kraken once he found him.

And another bit of illogical behavior: why would Elizabeth chain Jack to the boat under the impression that the kraken is only coming for Jack, rather than the ship, when it's SHOWN just minutes earlier that Jack could have escpaed the kraken (before he came back). By that logic, the kraken probably would have just attacked the Black Pearl again, and Jack could have gotten away with the others.

 

[Lynda-Marie]

Rhoq, I beg to differ. Norrington was picked up as a crewman in Tortuga at the same time Elizabeth boarded the Black Pearl. He was NOT present when Jack and Will spoke about the Flying Dutchman, nor when Will boarded the Dutchman.

I guess I will have to lean toward Norrington being shrewd enough to know what was going on, or that maybe he overheard members of the Pearl's crew gossiping about the incident.

The reason it bugged me is because I saw it on Saturday, and wondered how Norrington could possibly have known, then figured maybe I was wrong about the timeframe. I saw it again on Sunday, and sure enough, there was no hint of Norrington aboard the Pearl during the exchange between Jack and Will.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Davy Jones is an asshole er I mean somebody who acts like the devil. What else do you need to know about him? Sparrow knows Davy Jones because well, he's Davy Jones. He's a legend of the seas, and he also raised the Pearl from the depths.

As for the mark, it can be given or taken away by a handshake. But it happens to show up on its own as well (right before they make it to Isla Cruze or whatever the name is).

I was able to follow the movie the first time, but I was also sitting up front right next to front speakers. I've found that on subsequent viewings (where I sat in the middle section of a crappy theater) you can barely hear the dialogue.

I think the mark was a good way to show how Jack is being tracked down. Unfortunately in a haste to show how cool the Kracken is, it really lessens the importance of the mark. Remember, the Kracken followed Jack's hat first. That's one of the few minor points that stills bugs me.

 

[Rhoq]

I think I might have thought it was implied that he was present at the time Will boarded the Dutchman. Thanks for pointing that out though. Now it kind of changes everything.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

The crew was present when Davy blabbered about Jack condemning an innocent man to take his place. It's not a stretch for me to believe that Norrington would find out from the crew. Your mileage may vary however.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

Jack encountered Davy Jones once before, possibly he was on a boat that sank seems the most likely explanation. Jack made a bargain with Jones - make me a captain, and I'll give you my soul in eternal service. The Black Pearl was a boat that was sunk in the past and was summoned up by Jones and provided to Jack as a ship for him to captain. There was a time limit of 13 years, Davy Jones is wanting to collect his debt, Jack doesn't want to let him, so Davy Jones puts the black mark on him so that the Kraken will eat him.

That was my understanding, at least.

 

[Chris Atkins]

I agree, but unfortunately the Kraken never once tracks down Jack based solely on the mark. The first attack (on the no name ship) is apparently predicated by Jack's hat...but the second and third attacks are only brought about by a summoning, and then the Kraken inexpicitly goes after the Black Pearl when Jack is by himself not 100 yards away.