*** Official PHANTOM OF THE OPERA Discussion Thread (2 Viewers)

[Joe Karlosi]

I was pleasantly surprised, and thought it was a good film. Just to let you know where I stand here, I have never seen the stage play, and I can't stand opera and have only moderate tolerance for musicals in general. But I was very impressed with the sets, costumes, cinematography - the gorgeous appearance of this film. The lead girl was great, and I thought Minnie Driver often stole the show with her comical scenes.

As for the Phantom, I have nothing to compare him with as I never saw the stage show, but I liked the fact that we could feel both pity for him and also despise him at the same time. He was enough of a villain when he needed to be, yet sad too -- and that was a hit with me. And I liked the fact that he was given an origin.

I don't mind crooning on stages, but I tend to cringe when characters "sing" regular dialogue to each other in casual conversation. Yet in this case I was so overwhelmed by the visuals that I was kept involved throughout the picture. I hesitate to say "it was good despite the singing," but there you go!

 

[Haggai]

Heh, glad someone else noticed as well. For anyone who's seen the play, is that weird little touch imported from the stage production as well?

 

[Julian Lalor]

Well, that doesn't surprise me.

 

[ChuckSolo]

I think that some people here were expecting what, a horror film? Folks, this is a musical. What is meant by "vogueing" in earlier posts. During the masquerade sequence, the only thing I noticed was the costumes were a bit different from the stage play, but, nothing major different. DO NOT go see this film if you are expecting a horror, adventure, supernatural type film, it is an Andrew LLoyd Webber musical and must be seen in that context. I find it refreshing that even some who have never seen the stage play actually liked the film. It seems there are some Joel Shumacher biases here too. I believe that those that hated the movie would have hated the stage play too.

I remember going to see the Frank Langella movie version of the "Dracula" stage play and remember thinking that it was pretty close to the play in its rendition. However, the movie and play both took very liberal license with the Bram Stoker novel. "Phantom of the Opera" by ALW has to be seen for what it is, a very stylish musical with excellent music and visuals.

 

[Haggai]

Remember the old Madonna song, Vogue? "Strike a pose"? It was a popular dance style in the early '90s. One of the guys does a little solo dance thing at the top of the stairs in the Masquerade number, and it looked to me like he was doing that dance.

 

[Janna S]

I like musicals, love costume work and set design and glitter and glamour, I have liked some of ALW's stuff, and I was BORED SILLY by this movie. I'd never seen the stage play and I was remarkably unfamiliar with the music (given how ubiquitous the show has been) and for the life of me I can't see (from the film) what so many people liked about the show. I didn't walk out but I was tempted. Even Emmy Rossum, who amazed me in "Songcatcher," left me cold. Raoul - the love interest - huh? Rodrigo Santoro with glasses and almost no dialog in "Love Actually" put this Raoul to shame. The Phantom - where was his drama, his power, his intensity, his madness? The music was insipid. Of the six films I saw in the last three days (catching up) this one ended up on the bottom of the list . . . .

 

[ChuckSolo]

Music insipid? Wow, there's no accounting for taste is there. What were you expecting Janna? Certainly not most of the drivel that passes for music these days I hope. Well, to each his own I guess. I personally like the songs and being a songwriter and musician myself, I appreciate the melodies ALW came up with in this one. But then again I just turned 49 so I guess I am from a different school of thought and appreciation.

 

[Steven Simon]

I'm not a Musical fan much, but did see the play live over 15 years ago. This film was brilliant in every respect. The music, backdrops, and acting were simply sensational!!!!

 

[MichaelAaron]

I live in NYC, and watched Phantom of the Opera [in DLP] at the Regal Cinemas in Union Square. Wow. I saw this musical in London in 1989--and the film is every bit as enthralling as I remember the stage production to be. I suggest that you don't go into it expecting to hear these actors aping the vocal stylings of any of the original cast—allow yourself to get used to these interpretations of the numbers. "Masquerade" is the standout number for me.

 

[DeeF]

Saw Phantom this afternoon.

Though not terrible, it isn't good. It managed to make me dislike the piece even more than I already have.

The entire thing is quite incoherent, as is the stage musical. Why people do things, why they go here, what happens to people between Masquerade and Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again, etc. It's just very bad writing, worse continuity.

Phantom replaces an actual story with vague interchangeable homilies. I was struck today by the fact that the diegetic aria "Think of Me, fondly, when we say goodbye" was probably written for a different spot in the show, but all the songs are interchangeable, in terms of their general banal emotional content (nothing specific).

So, banal emotional content, no humor, and incoherent plot. Just a little example: Christine giving the ring back to the murderous Phantom: why? because it's the polite thing to do? Or maybe, he'll need to get a refund? But we've just seen her escaping in the boat with Raoul, did he come back with her? It's just ridiculous, and the movie/show is filled with such moments.

I think the visuals look like Moulin Rouge, which is both a good and bad thing. Phantom isn't Moulin Rouge, and isn't remotely as fun.

Emmy Rossum cannot sing, but since she is 19, she's forgiven that there is little interest in her. Gerard whohaa has a Scottish brogue, but then everybody has a different accent, including Miranda Richardson, who delivers a very acute French accent while conversing with Raoul. Aren't they both French, and aren't they speaking French? Minnie Driver is OK, meaning, she finds a little comedy in her very little screen time. Patrick Wilson is a dreamboat, even with that hair, and he is the only one in the movie that finds a heart in his very underwritten role. But he does seem to be changing in and out of his uniform a lot.

By the way, if people think this is just a good vehicle for memorable melodies, think again. The melodies are memorable, but in a completely annoying way: when they pop up, one is reminded that the same melody doesn't work in every emotional situation. The work is utterly devoid of any creativity, artistry or real human feeling, or even sense.

And this is the most successful musical of all time: reminds me why, after a period in the late 80s, I hated musicals for a while. Encores resurrected my interest in them, but these movies (Chicago and Phantom) may have resurrected my disinterest.

 

[ChuckSolo]

Hmmmm one has to wonder why someone who dislikes the overall content of the show, both on stage and now on film would even bother to go see it. Devoid of creativity, artistry, human feeling? Wow, how funny, there are hundreds of thousands of people who seriously disagree with you. Have you even seen the stage production? If you had you probably would have known that "Think of Me, fondly, when we say goodbye" was exactly where it was supposed to be. Gee DeeF, your loss, our gain.

 

[Sean Laughter]

While I don't really disagree with you about Phantom's merits (the stage show anyway, still haven't seen the film yet), I am curious about your issues with Chicago the film (aside from the film choreography robbing the succesfull stage revival of its sexiness and swank), or the stage show. Kander & Ebb are about the only songwriter's I've been able to stomach on Broadway in recent years, sad that there won't be another collaboration. I know this isn't really the topic for all this though.

 

[dany]

I saw the org on stage. I'm lucky. Saw another one last year. It was ok. Saw the movie,it was inbetween. It did explain it abit more. All in all,pretty good.

 

[DeeF]

http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/revi.../index_np.html

 

[Ernest Rister]

Emmy Rossum cannot sing, but since she is 19, she's forgiven that there is little interest in her.

And Nicole Kidman can?

Off the hook, DeeF.

 

[DeeF]

By the way, I love musicals, I write them, and I work in the musical theater in New York. My favorites include My Fair Lady, Gypsy, and Fiddler on the Roof, and my modern favorites are Sweeney Todd, Chicago, etc.

But I don't think these type of integrated musicals make very good movies, overall, with some being better than others.

The stageshow Chicago is vastly preferable to the film.

I had high hopes for the Phantom movie, because the addition of striking visuals might have brought some light to the project, some coherence, some sense.

Alas, it was not to be.

 

[DeeF]

Though Nicole Kidman's voice wasn't great, she wasn't playing an opera singer who becomes a star after her first performance of an aria.

By the way, I don't love Moulin Rouge either, but it is certainly similar to this movie, in its look and feel.

One big problem I have with this movie doesn't have anything to do with the score -- this is how we make such movies now, with extraneous visuals that add nothing to the story. I had a headache by the end. Why not tell the story straightforwardly? Why not hire people who can actually sing the parts? Truthfully, the Phantom should have been Antonio Banderas, who wanted to do it, and he can really sing.

 

[Ernest Rister]

This is how we make such movies now, with extraneous visuals that add nothing to the story. I had a headache by the end.

I feel the same way about Moulin Rogue. Makes me a fuddy-duddy, I suppose, but the editor-on-crack jump cuts in that film made me nauseous.

I agree with you on the editing, but mainly in the opening scenes. A film should draw you in and establish a rhythm, and while I suspect this will be less of an issue on future viewings of the film, the cut-cut-cut-cut editorial style in the establishing dialogue scenes threw me off and distanced me from the film.

 

[DeeF]

Though this isn't the thread to talk about Chicago, I think this brings up an important point. One reason we like musicals and other performance art pieces is that we like to see the performers actually doing it. Singing is muscular, athletic, and a great singer who can traverse the scales and roulades with aplomb is a great pleasure, akin to watching a great sports hero like Michael Jordan.

Movies are pictures and soundbites which are pasted together, and as we all know from Singin' in the Rain, often the singing voices used come from different performers -- this is a given. So the audience is automatically distanced from the pleasure of the performance, because they know it isn't real.

Chicago (the movie) hired people who couldn't do the job of actually singing and dancing. Richard Gere and Renee Zellweger were bettered by everybody that ever played in the show (I saw the original with Gwen Verdon and Chita Rivera, and the revival 7 times with all the various brilliant cast members).

And Phantom has essentially done the same thing, hiring non-singers to pull off difficult singing roles. Though much of the singing has been excused here as stylistically purposeful, i.e., they're "supposed" to be pop-rock singers, I quite vehemently disagree -- they're "supposed" to be opera singers. Someone like Kristen Chenoweth (I know she's too old) would have been able to do the opera-style singing as well as the pop. Rossum is too young, too inexperienced, too raw. Curiously enough, I thought Minnie Driver did the very BEST job of "enacting" the singing, though she's the one that's dubbed.

 

[DeeF]

As I've said, I was hoping that the visuals for this film would add something to a piece that by itself is shallow and dull. In the beginning of the movie, there were some shots that suggested a more ambitious use of the camera.

In one shot, showing the chorus dressing room, one lovely chorus girl in her corset was smoking a cigar.

In another shot, the box of resin on the stage floor, and a toeshoe daintly dipped into the box.

I was very hopeful at the beginning for THIS movie, revealing the little world of opera and ballet circa 1870, Paris.

But that was it: later we got shots of "vogueing" and during the Don Juan opera, dancers in the background actually tangoing?

It's a bit of a travesty really. What an opportunity wasted.