Official iPhone on Verizon Press Conference, Announcement and Discussion thread (1 Viewer)

[Michael_K_Sr]

Consumer Reports lost much of their credibility last year when they said they couldn't recommend the iPhone 4 even though it scored the highest ratings of any smartphone they tested.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Wait a sec...


Consumer Reports was SPOT ON.


The iPhone 4 had antenna issues. Some may not think

so, but I had them and reported it here.


All Consumer Reports was saying was that until they
address the antenna issue that they were not recommending

the phone. They did the right thing.


Subsequently, Apple gave out cases to all owners which

fixed the antenna issues when holding the phone a certain way.

 

[DaveF]

Ron, so you agree with CR, you don't recommend the iPhone 4 and advise people against buying it? Because that's still CR's stance: They do not recommend the iPhone 4 on AT&T (or Verizon, now)

 

[mattCR]

I think, though, here CR has a valid point. You're buying a smartphone that is identical to one that shipped almost 8 months ago.. it would be the same as someone buying a 3GS a few months before the 4 shipped. Advising some caution before locking into a new contract is always prudent. If ATT comes out with an Iphone5 this summer, then you've just bought a phone that is behind even Apple's own schedule. I'd be shocked if Apple doesn't feel compelled to come out with the iPhone5 on both platforms at the same time...


Samsung, HTC, RIM, etc. all come out with phones on almost all product lines with a very short advantage window to one provider or another.. or they offer different models, same generation on different carriers.

CR's point here is a simple one: this is a 2 year contract you're talking about.. maybe instead of rushing out and being an early adopter, wait and see if an iPhone5 drops this summer, on both platforms.. or just wait a bit. I think that's surprisingly good advice.

 

[TonyD]

I thought cr's advice was over the top. Every one knows a new iPhone will come out at least every summer. But to give it the glow ing review then say do t buy it because sometimes the antenna problems pop up for some people is ridiculous.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Ron, so you agree with CR, you don't recommend the iPhone 4 and advise people against buying it? Because that's still CR's stance: They do not recommend the iPhone 4 on AT&T (or Verizon, now)

Actually, I believe, once Apple issued the cases to iPhone 4

customers last Summer CR gave the iPhone 4 their approval.
Now it seems they are hung up on the iPhone for other reasons.


No, I don't entirely agree with CR's take on the iPhone -- particularly

the jab at its screen size and the fact that it's not cutting edge
compared to other smart phones.


I think the iPhone 4 has been the most popular phone in the

market and that its owners generally regard it as the best thing

since sliced bread (if I may use that corny line).


...and with every new iteration of the iPhone (iPhone 5 is coming),

there seems to be something unique to it that none of the
other phones have.


That all being said....


Where I do agree with CR is that people rushing to buy an
iPhone 4 on Verizon day one are setting themselves up to

possibly be disappointed long-term.


CR points out that you can't do voice and data at the same

time on Verizon's network. Not a big deal to some, but for
me definitely a deal-breaker.


I also agree with CR that jumping in day one will lock you

out of an iPhone 5 should Verizon release their version the

same time AT&T releases theirs in just 4 months. Frankly,

I would be pissed if I jumped into a 2-tear Verizon contract

and 4 months later found out I was not eligible to upgrade

to the better iPhone.


...that is if Verizon gets iPhone 5 at the same time as AT&T.


Finally, CR is also right about data plans. We know nothing.

And how do we know once Verizon announces theirs that
AT&T doesn't become a little more competitive to lure people

to their service?


There's a lot of uncertainty right now about the iPhone on

Verizon. I know customers have been waiting forever for

the opportunity to buy an iPhone on the Verizon network,

but if it were me, I would wait things out an additional 4 months.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by mattCR


I think, though, here CR has a valid point. You're buying a smartphone that is identical to one that shipped almost 8 months ago.. it would be the same as someone buying a 3GS a few months before the 4 shipped.

That specific aspect of their advice is reasonable; that's how I view things.


But CR's rabble-rousing over the antenna issue to seemingly get media attention with their poor shopping advice damaged their credibility in my view.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

I also agree with CR that jumping in day one will lock you

out of an iPhone 5 should Verizon release their version the

same time AT&T releases theirs in just 4 months. Frankly,

I would be pissed if I jumped into a 2-tear Verizon contract

and 4 months later found out I was not eligible to upgrade

to the better iPhone.s.

You would. I'd be annoyed. Normal people don't care.


An easy example of this is my sister. Affluent. Spends money on the things she cares about, like a $2000 racing bicycle. But thinks my choice to spend $299 on a new iPhone 4 is silly. And just recently, when here iPhone 3G was on the fritz, held off until the AT&T 3GS went on sale for $49, and bought that (last week). She doesn't care about the iPhone 4. Doesn't care that the iPhone 5 is coming out in five months. Just wants the cheapest iPhone she can buy.


Or, consider the millions of people who bought an iPad in December. We know that the iPad 2 is coming out in April, a scant 5 months later. People don't care. They get what the want when the want it.


In fact, most people don't realize the iPhone is refreshed every summer. They don't pay attention to gadget news for that to have been made part of their workaday knowledge.


Again, I'll refer to my sister. Smart girl. Knows lots of things. She thinks Apple products are cheap. Consider the iPhone 4: it only costs $199 at the store, so it's very cheap to make. She simply didn't believe me when I explained that it's a $600 phone sold at a subsidized price due to the two-year contract, as are all phones.In fact, after ten minutes of me trying to explain this, I still don't think she believes me that every phone is sold that way


My point being: most people aren't technorati who spend time each day following gadget rumors and chatting online about it. Most people decide now's the time to buy a new phone and go get them. Friends on Facebook commented that their current dumbphones broke so they went out and bought new iPhone 4s. We might suffer along for six months to get the latest and greatest, but for everyone else, they're just thrilled to have something so good, and won't even notice or care with the iPhone 5 comes out.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I suppose Consumer Reports is still hung up

on the antenna issue.


But you know what? I am not. From personal

experience I can tell you that without the case

there are major antenna issues with the iPhone 4

from AT&T. With the addition of the case, those

issues are no more. That's my advice.


Also, what Consumer Reports is not telling you

that Verizon has allegedly relocated the antenna

in their phones so it will not have the same issues

as the ones offered by AT&T.


I'm not saying Consumer Reports is 100% correct

on their findings of the iPhone. I do agree that people

should be cautious jumping on Verizon before seeing

what lies ahead in 4 short months.


Addendum: Dave, I see you added a response while

I was typing.

I do agree to some the advances in technology will

be of no interest to them -- that is, perhaps, unless

you tell them up front, "Would you want to buy this

phone now or in 4 months when a better one comes

out?" Knowing that in advance may change their

minds significantly which is why it is part of my

duty here to give all the pros and cons of jumping

into a product like this so quickly.

 

[Michael_K_Sr]

I think most of their criticism is pretty silly. If they want to savage a phone because it doesn't do simultaneous voice and data then they shouldn't be recommending a single phone sold by Verizon or Sprint. Likewise, a new Android device seemingly is released every other week. I don't see them issuing cautionary advice not to by the latest Motorola or LG smartphones because something better may be just around the corner. Just an absurd double standard here.

 

[RAF]

Originally Posted by mattCR

Yep, antenna system redesigned The inclusion of the mobile hot spot is a nice way to get around the 4G issue.. I will say, at least here in Kansas I'd take ATT over Verizon every day of the week.. the service difference is huge.. Verizon is slow like a dog here, compared to ATT... which of course may vary all over the country

Well, I'm not in Kansas any more Dorothy. Here in Westchester County (NY) ATT is such a dog compared to Verizon that you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to ATT from Verizon. I was an ATT customer for ten years until I switched to Verizon and the service difference is HUGE but in favor of Verizon. The bottom line is that I use a phone mainly for making phone calls and ATT fails miserably for me in those terms. I'm glad that the iPhone has finally come to Verizon and I'll be on board with two units on February 3rd. And when the next model comes out I'll simply buy two new units at whatever the asking price is. One of my grand kids will "inherit" my Retina screened iTouch and I'll be perfectly satisfied with my Verizon iPhone. I also am not worried. about not being able to do data and phone calls at the moment for a number of reasons. For one thing, my mobile phone is for my use and very few people are given my phone number so I don't worry about dropping a hot spot. For another thing, I'd be much more concerned with dropping a call and that has completely disappeared since I switched to Verizon in 2004. Eventually data and phone calls will coexist in Verizon land and I can make do until then without losing any sleep over it. To me the one major flaw regarding the iPhone in the past was that you had to be tied to ATT and now that nightmare is over.


Like I said, the primary use of my phone is for making phone calls. Everything else is icing on the cake and I have other devices (like my iPad) for most apps in a much more convenient format. The Verizon iPhone lets me consolidate some of my "toys" while suddenly becoming a functional phone.


And yes, as soon as iPad Two comes out my significant other will "inherit" my iPad One.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

RAF,


Was looking forward to reading your response as

I know that you have been talking to me about

iPhone 4 and Verizon for years.


Interesting, since you and I share the same
habits of buying new gadgets and wanting the

best of the best that you are opting to purchase

the Verizon iPhone day one knowing that a new

version is only 4 months away.


....and I do realize that you know that the initial

iPhone will cost you $300 while the one you buy

in 4 months will cost you twice that.


Personally, on a financial level, I would not take

those kind of risks. However, you seem to have

a lot more freedom in that area than I do.

I think most people would not do what you are.

God Bless you for having a gameplan like this.


I can't blame you for going with Verizon knowing

the reception issues with AT&T in your area.


You are going to love your iPhone. You already

are well versed in iOS 4 with your iPod Touch and

iPad. You will find the migration to the iPhone to

be very familiar.


Good luck with your new toy. Look forward to

reading about it.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein Besides, there's no guarantee that iPhone 5 will actually come to Verizon in 4-to-5 months anyway or that it will be quite that much better than iPhone 4 -- they probably won't even give us any solid info to justify the wait until a week or two before the release...


_Man_

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Man,


Hard to figure out what the average consumer will

see as important factors when deciding to purchase

the iPhone 4.


When you see my friend RAF saying he'll buy both

the $300 and $600 versions, you begin to wonder

how far some will go compared to others who will

be happy with the initial $300 phone and hold on to

that for the next two years.


So, no arguments here. It's anybody's guess how

consumers are going to handle this release.

 

[mattCR]

I think RAF pointed out why an iPhone will be a great seller for Verizon. Fact is, I haven't found a cellular network of any that is truly great nationwide. You couldn't pay me to switch to Verizon here, but I will admit that I also grr a bit on my ATT in NY. Sprint, which is of course great here in KC and the DC metro, sucks in other places, and so on. I think this is why having phones available on multiple platforms works out for everyone; and if it isn't, then you lose some customers by default.

 

[RAF]

Hi Ron.


Man makes some very [SIZE= 14px]good points [/SIZE]concerning the amount of time that will pass between Verizon's introduction of the iPhone4 and the release of a Verizon-based iPhone5. We can't be sure exactly how long the wait will be. It might be 4 months or maybe more before Verizon upgrades to the latest iPhone. I remember watching the announcement the other day when the head of Verizon was questioned about the relatively short time between the introduction of the Verizon/iPhone and the introduction of the next generation of iPhone - probably in 4 months or so. He acknowledged that the prime directive was to get the iPhone onto the Verizon network - albeit "only" the 3G portion and not the 4G network. His words were something like, "You wouldn't believe how many times a day I'm asked when are we getting the iPhone" and he was quite clear that the priority is to get the iPhone onto the network. The migration to the new iPhone and Verizon's 4G network would come later and I can see why. Without a doubt the Verizon/iPhone will be a HUGE success in New York and San Francisco. I've traveled the country extensively and the last straw came in 2004 when I was in Yellowstone National Park celebrating the 100th anniversary of Old Faithful Inn (the family was staying there.) I had an AT&T phone, my significant other had a Nextel/Sprint device and my son had a Verizon phone. As we traveled throughout Montana, Wyoming and Idaho the Nextel was useless, my AT&T worked about half the time and my son (who was conducting business while on vacation) never dropped a call on his Verizon phone. It was almost laughable as we all had to take turns borrowing my son's phone to make calls. Needless to say both Sandy and myself chucked our AT&T and Nextel phones when we got home and we've been Verizon subscribers ever since.


When the iPhone was introduced (let's not forget that Verizon was the first one that Steve Jobs approached and they declined his terms) I steadfastly refused to sacrifice phone functionality for a device which, while extremely cool with its apps and everything, was terrible as a phone. Ron switched from Verizon to AT&T because coolness won out over phone connectivity and clarity. I stayed with a variety of Verizon phones that didn't have the apps, etc. but were excellent as phone devices (we currently are still using our Blackberrys). But we also have iTouches for apps as well as iPads.


So the iPhone4 coming to Verizon makes perfect sense to me and in four or six or however many months it takes before there's a Verizon/iPhone5 on 4G or whatever on the horizon I'll pay full freight if need be for the next generation iPhone. The Verizon/iPhone4s won't go to waste. My kids and grand kids (all Verizon users) are salivating about "inheriting" Grandpa and Sandy's Verizon/iPhones - whatever version they are.


As Ron mentioned, I'm retired and have more discretionary income than many others who are still are more affected by the state of the economy so I'm not trying to be flippant here. But to me, spending $600 or $1200 to upgrade is worth it since others in my family will get use of last year's model. I also know that others - while they might want to do what I will be doing - can't justify the cost. It funny, because we're not too far removed from justifying the amount of money spent on our home theaters. Some people would gag on the cost of my speakers, projector, amps, etc. etc. until I tell them that I get immense enjoyment out of the Home Theater and in the 12 years that I've had it it's more than paid for itself!


(Side note to Sam Posten: When Nikon came out with the 300D I thought about selling my 300 and upgrading for some of the new features. I ended up keeping the 300 body and getting a 300D. Sandy now uses the 300 "hand me down" and loves it with our assortment of lenses. In fact she just purchased a 50-300 VR2 enabled telephoto lens to expand her horizons. That's how we are, Sam. I know you understand.)


Back to phones. I don't know how Verizon is going to handle data plans, etc. but I'm fairly confident that it won't be that much different than the two Blackberrys we now support with unlimited data plans. And if Verizon drags its feet a bit with the introduction of the next generation 4G enabled iPhones I'm not overly concerned if it takes a year for this to happen. Right now Verizon in our area (and probably elsewhere) allows the primary phone user to upgrade after one year at a reduced cost so maybe the $1200 figure might be a little less. We'll see. Obviously, if the time frame were only a month or so I would wait to take advantage of new phones - but once we get to 4-6 months or so then it's just something that I'll absorb because I can and I want to. I have friends who will spend $300 for a round of golf - sometimes several times a week and think nothing of it. Well, I don't play golf so I'll fund upgrades instead.


That's my take on the situation at this point. Verizon has been promoting "The Event" quite heavily - especially to those of us who are eligible for multiple upgrades. Billboards and web sites proclaiming :


[SIZE= 25px]iPhone 4. Verizon. It begins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 18px]02.03.11[/SIZE]



fill my mailbox almost on a daily basis. They have to be loving this. And the irony is that probably those of you who have AT&T will also benefit. Once there are millions of iPhones using the data streams of Verizon I have no doubt that speeds will suffer. And if a lot of AT&T subscribers jump ship to Verizon then I'd wager that AT&T speeds and reliability will increase so there's a bit of irony involved here.


I'm just going to sit back and watch as things unfold. Hell, it'll probably be a lot more interesting than American Idol which should only be a shadow of its former self this season.

 

[Sam Posten]

The best part of the iPhone is how little you actually want to use a phone, any phone, after using it for a while.


And as for the death grip, as much as I gripe about AT&T reception I should note that I used my free bumper for a week, ripped it off after being pissed about having to remove it every time I wanted to dock, and never put it back on.


I'm hanging free out there and lovin' it Jerry!

 

[DaveF]

My wife was anxious about me not having a case so she bought me one for Christmas (the bumper, which I really liked, won't accommodate my car adapter)


And while I need the phone to work, it's a pretty small part of what I do with the iPhone now that I've got it

 

[Sam Posten]

Wrong thread