**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* (2 Viewers)

[Jari K]

I guess Blu-ray won´t be integrated to Xbox 360 after all:

(Microsoft 'not in talks' with Sony over Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive - Joystiq)

"Xbox is not currently in talks with Sony or the Blu-ray Association to integrate Blu-ray into the Xbox experience."

Also here:
Microsoft says no Blu-ray for Xbox 360 | Special Coverage | Reuters

**

..and some comments from MS (about downloading):

Microsoft dismisses Blu-ray as "historic phenomenon" // GamesIndustry.biz

"While Microsoft's belief in the long term potential of downloadable content over physical storage media is well documented, Lewis claimed that, despite Blu-ray's victory, the shift away from discs will happen "sooner than any of us think".

"That's the future direction, and I think that's going to be the case in the next 12-18 months," he predicted. "I think we're going to be talking much more about that than anything else. Do I think that this Christmas will somehow be defined by DVD playback? I genuinely don't think that will be the case. I do not think that [the demise of HD DVD] will have any material impact on our console velocity. And I think other factors, specifically our architecture around downloads, is far more advantageous and important for the future."

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

I don't agree with the above.

IMHO, a physical, portable disc with all the HD information for one movie and a case with "artwork" for storage, will always be my preference instead of downloads.

Paul

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I don't know.

It reads almost like a threat against physical media. I guess we'll see come Christmas time.

I really hope we don't end up w/ a Blu-ray vs download/VOD war in 2009. :frowning: I will be *reeeeally* pissed at Micro$oft (and possibly Toshiba), if that happens. I don't mind if download/VOD eventually replaces DVD at the bargain pricing and rental end of the market, but I don't want to see BD/HDM go back toward LD-like niche. I mean I guess many of us can (barely) live w/ that outcome, but most of us certainly won't be happy w/ that.

_Man_

 

[Paul_Scott]

mine too. But that doesn't excuse the fact that Sony is busily putting its own 'architechture' in place for a transistion to the download future- the PS3. I kind of tend to think that is why they are being so bullish on Bd, despite all evidence of overwhelming consumer apathy towards high quality (and relatively low cost) 1080p HDMs 2 years in. The PS3 WAS obviously designed to be powerful and flexible enough to be a solution to many future 'problems'. I have little doubt Sony wants to control downloads as much (or more obviously) than MS ever did.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

I'm not saying Sony isn't looking to the future of downloads, but I find the idea that the PS3 is a trogan horse once more a bit odd. You do realize that Microsoft's console is not only capable of the same thing, but has actually had HD movie downloads for the last 2 years over Xbox Live?

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's no secret that every studio would prefer downloads for better control of their content and even now are using and perfecting the lossless audio codecs of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, which are desperately needed as compression tools along with video codecs, that compete for HDM-content storage space on hard drives and for faster download transfers.
Audio codecs are an unneeded option for Blu-ray Discs which are more than capable of delivering lossless multichannel PCM with pure 24-bit lossless audio on every title - now.

Again:

An HD movie and a case with "artwork" for storage, will always be my preference instead of downloads.

Paul

 

[Marc Colella]

Yes, downloads isn't just a MS thing... all the studios like the idea of download/VOD. Sony is gearing towards this as are others.

If you want to blame anyone if/when downloads/VOD grows in popularity, blame the people who want it and buy into it. People like the convenience of downloads and don't necessarily want/need the physical media. iTunes (and it's competition) are doing well and will continue to grow for music sales. I personally will only buy the physical CD/SACD with higher quality and will never pay for downloads - but I can't stop others from doing so.

VOD is where everything is heading, like it or not, it'll take some time obviously. I don't think physical media will be dead, but it might be relegated to a small market than it is now.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

You're right of course that it's not just a M$ thing. BUT if they bring it on in the very near future in a way akind to a format war against Blu-ray, then I certainly have somebody to blame. It all depends on what exactly they do w/ it.

_Man_

 

[Paul_Scott]

well, we'll just have to see of course- but I for one, can easily envision a day several years in the future where the total number of unique Bd titles available in still under 1500 and then Sony opens shop with its premium download marketplace offering half that overnight. So now that there is only one optical HD format, is content still king? Cause I don't see studios anxious to flood the markets with Bd content today or anytime soon. So we are more tha likely looking at a niche format that supplies only a cursory amount of product for the majority of its lifespan...because everyone from the studios to the posters here know that the masses value convienence over quality and a mass market delivery system (unlike Bd) is what is going to get the studios enthusiastic enough to open their floodgates (especially a system that can offer a better way of tracing pirates back to the source as well as maintaing personal info on viewing habits, opportunities for direct marketing , etc). I just get annoyed when "M$" is the one singled out as the potential mustache twirling villan here.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Now that MS has made public their motivation for advancing the cause of downloading without regard to supporting an HDM disc experience, I'm wondering if all the folks who accused Bill Hunt, Dan Ramer and other industry insiders of being conspiracy-theorists have realized that those folks were in fact correct.

I still see lots of Bill-bashing going on in various threads despite the fact that events have born out most of what he said to be correct all along. It seems so strange to vilify the folks who tried to warn enthusiasts of the truth of what was really going on.


So once we get confirmation that MS was indeed after downloading like many of us said, now the answer is to cast doubt about Sony's intensions for supporting disc-based HD media? With certainty EVERYONE ( Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM, Universal, Paramount, everyone) will embrace downloading when it's viable. However, you can also rest assured that the BDA and the studios will not stop pushing Blu-ray Disc. There's money to be made both ways, and the two media channels serve very different needs. The two streams of distribution do not negate each other. Only MS wants to see HDM disc media fade away since the only way they can make money is via downloading (everyone else can make money both ways).

 

[Marc Colella]

Wrong. People accused MS of supporting HD-DVD for the reason of killing HDM. That's still a conspiracy theory. MS wanting to capitalize on downloading is a no-brainer - we always knew that. There's nothing that says MS can't try to hedge their bets and get their feet in both arenas - it's smart business. They won't make as much money supporting HD-DVD, but that doesn't mean they didn't want it to succeed. Sony's doing the same thing with their push towards downloads and wants to beat MS to the punch. The only difference is that Sony wants to sell people the same movie again on Blu-Ray first, and then sell it again via download.

Phil Harrison has stated that he envisions the PS4 to be discless, so that tells us Sony's intention towards physical media.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I don't really have a problem of with downloads as long as they make an image file of everything that would be on a blu-ray for instance, and I have the option to burn it to a disc or put it on a flash drive that a player can read.

This is going on now with music albums where you can download the whole thing and burn it to disc.

I would however prefer some kind of product/delivery system that I can goto a store and buy. I don't really care what form that delivery system takes.

Doug

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

And yes, I trust that the meaning carries a positive connotation, not negative.

Sigh...

If people want to be "realists" rather than so called "naive" or "too optimistic", shouldn't there still be better ways to channel your "enthusiasm" in a more productive way than bitch about this and that all day long?? I really don't get this...

_Man_

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Well said. Keep in mind that Microsoft doesn't own any content. They have nothing to stream to you. They rely on the media companies to supply the content. Just like MS hedged their bets so are the media companies. Does the fact that Disney and Lionsgate are suppling HD content to XBOX live mean they are trying to get BD to fail? of course not. They are just trying to cover all segments of the market. Some people may prefer the download model, I don't and will buy the BDs over any download. So what if MS isn't supporting BD for their XBOX360. They probably looked at the numbers and decided it didn't make sense. Any XBOX360 owner who wants to watch a BD can buy a standalone player (or if they are a gamer they may already have a PS3 in addition to their XBOX360)

 

[Marc Colella]

This forum is dedicated to HDM (more specifically Blu-Ray since the victory). At this point in it's life the health of the format is a major topic of conversation, as is the future of it. Along with the positives, people can discuss the market realities as well. You have a choice to ignore threads or posts dealing with this topic.

:rolleyes

 

[BrianB]

It may still be his vision, but he's no longer "the Sony guy". Phil Harrison resigned from Sony.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I am an enthusiast. I'm a film enthusiast. What format that film arrives in is, with in some limitations, irrelevant to me.

Doug

 

[Jari K]

Good point. Downloading is coming (already here in some degree), that´s for sure. And it can of course be that one option among the many. But companies "doomsdaying" psychical media (like MS, it seems) are not worth defending. They want downloading, fine. But they also want the death of Blu-ray and probably also SD DVD (yep).

If there´s one thing where we all should be very vocal and firm, is that we should support psychical media in HD/SD over downloading in every possible way. Perhaps that´s the only thing, where we all can actually agree at this point (after bitter war and all that)?

Btw. Link to the Reuters article ("Microsoft says no Blu-ray for Xbox 360"):
Microsoft says no Blu-ray for Xbox 360 | Special Coverage | Reuters

 

[Dave Moritz]

I for one am not surprised that MS is pushing downloads. And now MS has come out and confirmed what many have been saying all along. I agree that downloads have there place and will happen. But I do not think that they will or should replace physical media. While many of us have disagreed over the format war, I am sure most of us can agree that we want physical media.

Personally I will not spend money on HD downloads and will spend my money on HD content on physical media. Another thing that I feel should concern us all is that it would be very easy for studios to control how many times we can watch a title. I fear that HD downloads may end up turning into a pay per view senario. While it may not happen right away, it could allways happen later on once they get people used to downloads. I also do not agree that downloads are anymore secure that physical media. Downloads will most likely prove to be more vulnerable to hacking and will end up being destributed across the internet with in days of being released.

 

[Sam Posten]

You guys do know why the studios loooooove downloads right? No secondary market. Every legit owner paid current retail pice to the studio. Fewer sales and markdowns. Monopoly access. No more BOGOs cause you arent playing amazon against walmart against best buy.

WORST for me is that I cant resell the ones I didnt like! And I cant loan out the ones I loved to those I want to share with. And when you die? So do your licenses. Your heirs get JACK S#%@.

With my dvd and CD collections if I get hit by a bus tomorrow my nephews get a nice bundle of packaged media. All the tunes I purchased on itunes go into the wind with me tho.

A lot of people clearly havent thought this whole download thing through all the way (but the studios have!). It does have SOME benefits to the consumer but they are false economies in many ways from a big picture mindset.