What's new

***Official Deus Ex 2 Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

JamesH

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
662
I will buy it as soon as possible and I will beat it by Saturday or Sunday. I'll put up some detailed impressions then.
 

Jason Quillen

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
622
I got the PC demo when it came out. I don't think I've ever put a game down faster.

The controls are horrendous, and its really baffling how anyone could think that inventory / weapon / mod menu works well. I give them credit for trying to be innovative, but everything I saw, aside from Audio / Video, missed the mark bigtime.

Hopefully, though, that control scheme will work on XBox.

JQ
 

Romier S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 2, 1999
Messages
3,525
Played both the Xbox and PC versions last night.

Played the Xbox/PC game for about three/four hours and quit to play some Armed and Dangerous (which is great fun by the way!). Please keep that in mind as you read this as this by no means a final review and just my findings after an extended play period.

As I originally suspected the interface was tailor made for the Xbox controller. Moving items, opening the map, checking the data vault, upgrading weapons and bio-mods are naturally laid out on the Xbox controller and it works almost seamlessly. Its amazing how unintuitive this same interface is on the PC version yet it works without flaw on the Xbox controller.

I still find the interface horribly intrusive. You can thankfully change the opacity on the Xbox version but I much prefer the ability to push the interface more to the sides on the PC game (via an INI fix). Either way the interface poses no threat to your enjoyment if your picking up the Xbox game. The same unfortunately cannot be said of the PC game. In fact I only wished the PC version would allow for the use of a game pad as I'd forego the mouse and keyboard all together.:frowning:

Graphically the Xbox game is downright identical to its PC counterpart (albeit with less resolution and clarity). The lighting effects are wonderfully done and rival those found in games like Splinter Cell, however the framerate is as expected problematic. It does smooth out as you move along the game into the more open areas but in the first hour or so of play, the framerate is just atrocious. Being that this is a slower paced game however I doubt anyone will find that it hampers the gameplay.

The music for the game is low key and very subdued but it also works quite well. The new remix of the DX theme is really wonderful and some of the techno/trance themes used in the games night club sections are actually really good!

One of the most irritating aspects of the Xbox version you will find are the load times. They range in the 25-30 second range. Now that in of itself is not a problem but you will see that load screen often. The levels in DX2 are quite small. On average you will enter a larger "hub" area that allows you to explore various sub sections. These sub sections house most of the NPC's you interact with and the important points of interest. Moving along these sub sections requires a load screen each time and you will move back and forth quite often. This is a problem with both the Xbox and the PC version though as the levels are exactly identical in size, however the PC version does load a tad quicker (suprisingly not by much).

Story wise the game keeps the Deus Ex intrigue and shroud of mystery (thank god). Alex D is a far less interesting protagonist than JC Denton (who is now depicted as a criminal for his actions in the first Deus Ex). Whether you play Alex as a male or female is irrelevant since he/she is rather bland both ways. The NPC's Alex interacts with though are varied and each have unique personalities. NG Resonance (a hologram of a popular female musician) is one of the most interesting and sexy females put in a game. She's a treat to talk to as are many of the folks you meet. The only downside is that these NPC's all recycle the same character models but its a minor point of contention.

The quest and data vault structure of the game are suprisingly very similiar to Knights of the Old Republic. Conversations and dialogue choices are handled in a very similiar fashion. Unlike the first game, DX2 has a more organized form of keeping track of available quests in the datavault. You will see each quest listed in order with the objective you need to accomplish. This is a change I like quite a bit since the first game did have the problem of seeming all over the place and a tad unfocused as you progressed into the later levels.

Combat in DX2 is just completely unsatisfying. Enemies show no feedback when shot as mentioned in various reviews. They just kind of continue to stand there and shoot as though your shooting into thin air. Eventually after about 10 pistol shots the enemy falls into a contorted mess thanks to the overly-exaggerated "rag doll" physics engine. Its fun to toss enemies about as though they are a basketballs but some form of wieght detection would have been nice. In the original game JC slowed down quite a bit while hoisting and hiding foes. That would have been a welcome addition here (both for added realism and an added stealth element).

Its interesting to note that there is a strength augmentation bio-mod that could have easily allowed Alex to, over the course of the game, upgrade to the point of being able to toss enemies about but for some reason all it does is allow you to pick up "heavier" items. Seems a missed opportunity IMHO.

The AI, as noted in the past, is downright stupid. Enemies use no teamwork nor do they try to even run away when they are injured (who knows if they are being injured anyway considering the lack of feedback;)). They usually sit in one place (ie right in front of you) and fire continuously. :frowning: This in fact was also a problem in the first game as many reviewers have mentioned. I'm not quite so keen on forgiving and forgetting when it comes to the AI however.

You can steal what you like when you like and most folks will simply just say how disrespectful your being, or nothing at all. For those interested, it is indeed true that you can walk anywhere you like with weapon in hand and nothing will be said or done to you. In fact for the Xbox version of the game I have yet to find a "holster" function at all:angry: (besides leaving an inventory slot empty and selecting it!). Another plus for the PC game as having your weapon out constantly abstructs your already limited view.

Quick note to PC fans. The resolution, gamma and brightness settings for the game will not save until you actually create a save game. For some oddball reason your resolution settings are part of your saved game file. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that many of the INI tweaks needed to get the demo running decently are still necessary here.(ho-hum)

After playing the full game I'm still quite disappointed but I do feel much better about the direction of the story and the games ability to allow you to choose your path as the previous game. The gameplay and design choices Ion Storm made (which I wont rehash) I just find contrived and detrimental to what the original game presented but the crux of Deus Ex is still here. The storytelling and open endedness is still here and no doubt there will be DX fans that will be more than willing to look past the games flaws because of that. Just make sure to keep your expectations in check.
 

Romier S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 2, 1999
Messages
3,525
And one last question, how do you save your game on the Xbox version? Is it anywhere, checkpoint based, or level based.
The game automatically saves your game as you progress to the different sub sections but you can also save anywhere at any time.
 

Derrik Draven

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 7, 1998
Messages
937
Real Name
Chris
Thanks for the info Romier.

There's no way I'm picking this game up now, which is VERY disappointing to me since I was really looking forward to it for over a year. :frowning:

The technical problems, ie the horrid framerate, retard level AI, overly long load times, are problems that I cannot overcome.

In my opinion, the original reason for games being played from the 1st person perspective, was to give you the most immersive experience in the game world possible. (please, no mention of VR games...UGH!!!)

If there's one thing, in an FPS, that says you're just playing a game, is a nasty framerate. Totally ruins the experience since, in reality, when I turn my head around, I don't notice a jittery, stuttery, chugging viewpoint. It's at least 60 frames/second! ;)

Add to that, gameworld AI that is as dumb as you and others have reported, it's just icing on the "you're just playing a game" cake. Since we've all played games with some excellent AI, how the heck do you dumb yourself way down and, enjoy it?

When a game, with problems like these, comes out, I always wonder what the developers thought when they were play testing the final versions.

Did they really think that the framerate was good? There are many many fps's on the 'Box and pc that have buttery smooth framerates so, I know that they could've seen how theirs didn't stack up.

How 'bout the AI? When enemies act as stupid as they reportedly do in Deus Ex, did the designers think that it's really cool how our AI doesn't react even remotely realistically?!!? :confused:

Or put it this way, could you guys honestly see Bungie releasing Halo 2 with a lousy framerate and stupid AI?

...didn't think so.

So, why Ion Storm? Those guys aren't stupid. They're gamers like us. Hell, Warren Spector has some SERIOUS pedigree behind him. The guy's a great game designer.

Does Eidos have responsibility here? Did they force Warren and co. to release the game as is?

I read many of the horrible things people were saying about the demo, and I read that Ion was a bit shocked about it. Even got Spector to address the complaints. Think I read where he said something along the lines that some of the problems/complains were going to be address with later gameplay balancing and some tweaks.

I'm guessing by the way of patches? I can see this game getting patched.

So, if they knew that...why the hell release the Xbox, ie NON PATCHABLE version, when you know you have some definite problems that need fixed?!!? Why not bump back the Xbox version until the flaws are fixed with the patchable PC?

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors and I don't know why the hell they released the Xbox version, let alone the PC version, with the glaring problems it has.

It's hard to believe that Warren Spector and co. dropped the ball on this go around.

Yes, I believe that the story is good but, if "turning the pages", is unsatisfying, I'm not going to want spend time "reading the book".
 

Dave F

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 15, 1999
Messages
2,885
The. Xbox. version. seems. to. be. a. little. bit. choppy. so. far.

Maybe a gamepad with the PC version would be the best version? It's amazing how much better the interface is with a pad. Like, it doesn't suck.

-Dave
 

Romier S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 2, 1999
Messages
3,525
As I originally suspected the interface was tailor made for the Xbox controller. Moving items, opening the map, checking the data vault, upgrading weapons and bio-mods are naturally laid out on the Xbox controller and it works almost seamlessly. Its amazing how unintuitive this same interface is on the PC version yet it works without flaw on the Xbox controller.

I still find the interface horribly intrusive. You can thankfully change the opacity on the Xbox version but I much prefer the ability to push the interface more to the sides on the PC game (via an INI fix). Either way the interface poses no threat to your enjoyment if your picking up the Xbox game. The same unfortunately cannot be said of the PC game. In fact I only wished the PC version would allow for the use of a game pad as I'd forego the mouse and keyboard all together.
The Xbox version does smooth out more as you go Dave. Give it time.
 

JamesH

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
662
I have to disagree with the previously expressed sentiments. I've played the Xbox version for about 3 hours and I think it's brilliant. While there are areas that have moved backwards from the first Deus Ex, which is absolutely inexcusable, I think the new elements added in outweigh it by far. To discuss some of the areas that people have been concerned about:

1. The unified ammo idea sounds bad, but it probably won't annoy you much once you get into the game. I was completely against it, but it's actually not bothering me much.

2. The much maligned interface works wonderfully for the Xbox controller. Although many PC gamers have not liked the HUD in the demo, I don't find it obtrusive at all.

3. Combining lockpicks and multitools isn't such a bad thing. The disadvantage is that it takes a choice away from a gamer as far as budgeting goes. However, the first game was unfair in that regard anyway because it required a hugely disproportional number of multitools at the game's end, and there was no way for the player to anticipate it. I think combining them lets the game run more smoothly.

4. The damage system IS totally screwed up. Out of all the various complaints people have had about the DX2 PC demo, I think this is the one valid one. It's impossible to get a stealthy takedown with a silenced pistol and firefights turn into wars of attrition since you can't get one shot kills. This part was horribly done.

5. The AI in the game is pretty stupid, but it's nothing you haven't suffered through before if you're a fan of the first Deus Ex. The spider bots are hilarious though. They have a little dance that cracks me up every time I see it.



Now, on to my impressions of the game. I'm playing this on a direct view HDTV and I think it looks absolutely amazing in progressive scan. The lighting and shadows are wonderful, and there are some tile walls that show off some great bump mapping. I find the framerate adequate for the type of game this is. If it was a twitch shooter, it might be too low, but it's fine for the pace of action in this game. It generally stays right around 30, and never gets as choppy as the Xbox Knights of the Old Republic. The apartments at the start seem to be a bit choppier than the rest of the areas I've been to. The character models can be a bit rough around the edges, but they're actually very good. Overall, I think the art direction in the game is great and the environments really draw you in, despite a few objects being overused.

I think the real draw of the game is the physics system. While I'm not up to date with what's going on in PC games, these are BY FAR the best physics I've seen in a console game. Everything reacts in a lifelike manner and it's a blast to just play around with things. The chairs are fun to toss around because the legs get caught on things and send them tumbling around. You can toss a basketball into a spinning ceiling fan and it will get swatted away by the fan blades. Just to see how far they went, I opened a fridge door, and put a metal bucket in the arc it needed to close through. When I closed the door, the door slid the bucket across the floor until it was wedged between the edge of the fridge and the door, then the door slowly swung back outward. Early on, you're blessed with a corpse to play with, and it's great fun to toss it around the environment and see how realistically it bounces off things. I tossed it halfway onto the kitchen counter, and it slid down the counter until it reached a semi-standing position. One of its arms was free, and it hung straight down limply, slowly swaying back and forth in the empty space.

The physics aren't perfect, and they do have a few small eccentricities. Shooting the corpse with even a pistol will send it wildly tumbling around. Killing live enemies with a shotgun will evoke memories of taking people out at close range with the silenced ballers in Hitman 2. Metal objects don't seem to have quite as much weight as they should, although the way they tumble is realistic. Also, the basketball bounces realistically, but it doesn't always roll like it should. Overall, the physics are amazing though. Everything reacts as you'd expect it to based on its shape and consistency. Hell, if you throw a bag of coffee beans at the wall, it will hit the wall and slide down rather than bouncing off of it.

The physics really add a lot to the gameplay. For example, in one side quest early on, you need to bypass some security beams that trigger a spiderbot. Of course, there are all the traditional Deus Ex methods to beat security systems and robots. However, instead of using them, I noticed a multitude of boxes and beer kegs lying around. Since the hallway was rather narrow, I crouched down, and tossed them all in to make a short barricade with pushable pieces. The spiderbot tried to get to me, but I outmaneuvered it and eventually boxed it in between the various objects. If that's not free form gameplay, I don't know what is.

In the streets of seattle, I found a red glass window with some goodies behind it, guarded by a camera and a turret. Since I like to play the role of a petty thug, I thought it would be funny to smash the window with a trash can and grab the goods. I tossed the garbage can at the window, expecting that it would not break(it looked high tech). and that I'd actually need some explosives. Well it broke, and I got gunned down by the turret surveying the stuff inside. Next time around, I went to the floor below and tossed up some boxes. It was easy to make a wall between the window and the turret, allowing time to look at all the objects without being shot.

You can also pull yourself up onto objects in this game, which makes getting around a bit easier. It's also possible to bounce on certain chairs to jump a bit higher and reach those elusive arducts.

So far, I am really enjoying the game and it isn't anywhere near the disaster I was expecting. Alex is a bit of a dork, but it's not too obtrusive. The only part that got under my skin was when he was asked to burn something, and he exclaimed "That's arson!" like a boy scout. JC Denton would have asked for credits, matches, and gasoline. There are some pretty amusing situations. Below describes part of a side quest, and does not have spoilers to the major plot, but I'm marking it just in case you don't want to know ANYTHING.

Early on, one of the "fruiter" bar patrons is too nervous to talk to one of the other men in the bar, so you get the option to play go-between and hook them up. If you comply, one of the men takes a liking to you and asks you to be their "chamber-boy". Say yes to that, and they'll give you a key and ask you to go to an apartment and wait for them. I haven't seen this thing through to the end, but the current plan is to loot the apartment and beat them down with a crowbar when they show up.


Oh, and as for the biomods, you can have a full set shortly into the game. I think this adds to the gameplay a lot because all critical elements are there from the get-go, rather than saving some of them for late in the game. You also get more flexibility, since canisters can be used for ANY slot, or to upgrade an existing biomod. Some of the groupings are wierd though. Regeneration is a cranial bio-mod rather than a skeletal one. WTF is all I have to say.

Oh, and btw, the weapons have cool alternate fires, and the pistol even has a flashlight so you won't need to waste bio-energy.

My recommendation: I think a lot of people will really like this game, but there are others who will hate it for the flaws it has that could have easily been corrected. If you are the type of person who enjoys experimenting with things in a gameworld(IE you spend hours decorating your house in Morrowind), buy this game immediately because you will fall in love with it. If you are looking for a good action shooter, run far far far AWAAAAAAY. If you're looking for a good action RPG, give it a rent, and you'll probably decide to buy it. I'm going to finish the game this weekend and I'll let you all know how the full game stacks up.
 

Romier S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 2, 1999
Messages
3,525
Glad you're enjoying it James.

I don't quite agree (or am not as positive) on some of points you mentioned but its always good to get a differing perspective.
 

JamesHl

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
813
I guess that is the one advantage of it being on xbox- I can rent it. In fact, I just might do that assuming all goes well on my calculus test, but not before then. Just in case.

I have to say, though, one of my favorite things about the first game was being a master pistoleer/highly proficient melee weapons guy. If I can't silently kill people by shooting them in the brain or a good chopping with a laser sword, I'm not sure how I'm going to feel.
 

JamesH

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
662
I found that you can get a silent takedown with the baton without trouble, as long as you come from behind and smack them in the head. It usually takes 2-3 blows but Alex swings so quickly that you can do it before they turn. In terms of proficiency in the various weapon types(guns, melee, etc), Alex is on about level 3 of the 4 present in DX1.
 

Derrik Draven

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 7, 1998
Messages
937
Real Name
Chris
What was Ion's reasoning for taking out the body part specific damage? This is a gameplay...improvement?!!? :confused:

I'm REALLY baffled at Ion Storms gameplay changes from the 1st, and much superior, Deus Ex.

On other forums, fans of the original Deus Ex are blaming Ion Storm for "dumbing down" to the console crowd.

...I'm quietly and reluctantly starting to think that, maybe they did. :frowning:
 

Dave F

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 15, 1999
Messages
2,885
It's definitely dumbed down, but I think it is narrow-minded to blame it on consoles. I think they just felt the game was just too complex for the masses: PC users and Xbox users. In doing so, they totally forgot that part of the beauty of Deus Ex was that you could play it any way that you wanted. You could play it as a shooter, or you could delve into it as deeply as you would like, and you would be rewarded with a richer experience.

-Dave
 

Dave F

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 15, 1999
Messages
2,885
The Xbox version does smooth out more as you go Dave. Give it time.
Yep. you're right. Very weird - I can't recall another game that does that (although I'm sure it's happened before). It's almost like an anti-Halo, which got choppy as you neared the end. ;)

With the better performance, I'm liking it enough to bump it up from a rental to a purchase. That's not to say it's a "must buy", but I don't think I'll feel gypped after buying it.

-Dave
 

Romier S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 2, 1999
Messages
3,525
I can't recall another game that does that
Pirates of the Carribean was similiar but that had more to do with game caching a certain block of information on the Xbox HD. Overtime the game continually ran smoother but this is not the same issue as DX2. If you restarted a game of Pirates after the initial caching period, areas that were at one time slideshows became very smooth. DX's opening apartment levels are simply choppy no matter what you do (the PC version's framerate is similiar but a tad smoother overall in the same area on my rig).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum statistics

Threads
356,810
Messages
5,123,551
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top