*** Official COLLATERAL Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Jacob McCraw]

My wife and I just saw this at the Loews on 34th street in Manhattan (I only mention this as I had no problem with the look of the film as it was projected digitally). I have read through all of the quibbles in this thread, and can agree with many of them although they did not bother me as I watched the film. The one thing that bothered me and took me out of the film was the point where Vincent has Annie dead to rights as she is crawling across the floor of the library. Vincent never hesitated once in the rest of the movie, which makes the several seconds he points the gun at Annie before Max shouts at him all the more jarring. Annie never would have seen the Vincent we saw previously coming. He would have just killed her quickly and professionally. After that unfortunate event, I really didn't care about the subway chase or the standoff. I had been taken out of a movie that had been wonderfully engaging up to that point.

 

[hanson mat]

Do you think the lighting added to or subtracted from the overall tone and mood of the film? Just curious...:star:

 

[ZacharyTait]

Richard,

Here's the answer to #3:

Vincent jumps through the tracks of the above train onto the tracks on the lower train and jumps onto the back of the lower train which is where Max and Annie are. That's the way I look at it.

 

[Tim Glover]

Finally got around to watching my Collateral dvd. Been too busy lately going to these little Oscar type movies.

Fantastic movie. Gripping, well-acted, & precision directing.

Someone please explain how this film missed out on more technical Oscar noms??? The camera work was incredible...and I've never heard gunshots pack such a thundering wallop in my life than those heard at the nightclub Fever. I think my couch moved. :b

With so many great performances in 2004, I think Cruise's performance kind of got looked over a bit. He was incredibly cold, wise, cool, and yet made us feel a little empathy. Not much, but a little pity for him.

Terrific movie experience and in my top 5 for 2004.

 

[Steve Felix]

I've finally seen all of the major contenders, so I can declare that Collateral was the best movie of the year. I really can't think of anything else that came close for me.

The photography in the office building at the end, with Vincent against the city, and that huge rack focus to Max on the rooftop -- breathtaking, groundbreaking. And it's all in support of the moving subtext of Vincent and Max teaching each other about life. Max offers Vincent needed humanism, and Vincent offers Max needed nihilism, or apathy, to put it more gently, to help him break through the anxieties keeping him from moving his life forward.

Mann notes on his unadvertised commentary that Vincent isn't being ironic when he gives his final line, "Think anybody'll notice?" I think that's an extremely important point.

 

[Edwin-S]

I thought 'Collateral' was a good film right up until the last twenty minutes. The last twenty minutes or so brought the film down. I could put up with the ridiculous premise of a hitman using a taxi to make hits, but the ending made me think the first 80 minutes were squandered.

The ending was completely contrived. There was absolutely no logical reason for a hit on the D.A. Her case was blown just as soon as the last witness was laid out stiff.

The only reason for a hit on her was so the taxi driver could make like a hero and save his "girlfriend", who he had known for all of about 10 minutes.

 

[Nathan V]

For those of you Michael Mann fans who had problems with the picture, especially the third act, I STRONGLY encourage you to listen to Mann's commentary on the dvd. It's easily one of the best I've heard, and one of the most enlightening. There are depths in this film that I did not even begin to grasp until Mann pointed them out, and I've seen the film 3 times. Don't immediately think that Mann has gone the easy route and opted for a cliched ending, even though it may appear to be the case on the surface. This is Michael Mann; he wouldn't do something that stupid! What makes the last section so compelling for me, (aside from all that badass cinematography), is the very non-classical thematics that underly these scenes, which can also serve the function of a classical ending. There are undercurrents going on in these chase scenes that set them apart from all other chase scenes; subtleties that occured earlier now make sense. That's why the film isn't cliche at all. Michael Mann has attempted something very difficult here. I'm not even going to try to summarize the ideas and themes I'm talking about; hell, I barely even noticed them on my own. I just had an intuitive sense that something more was taking place. I picked up a rather profound theme of coincidence and fate that runs throughout the picture (the cops leaving, Max shooting Vincent with his eyes closed, Vincent choosing the right train, Max's unanswered "Would you have shot him if he'd gotten it right?," etc), but Mann discusses other themes that I didn't even realize existed. I urge everyone interested in this type of stuff to listen to Mann's commentary (he spends almost the entire time discussing thematics).

Regards,
Nathan

 

[Brad E]

I like Heat as well, except for the ending, which is 10x worse than Collateral.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Actually for those of us lives here it is[Vincent's line] rather a cliche.LA has it's own urban legends,this is probably one of them.

 

[Tim Glover]

Thanks for the heads up on the commentary Nathan. I listened to a part of it the other night, but need to hear the whole thing.

 

[Steve Felix]

The significance is in how Vincent applies it to himself at the end, showing that Max isn't the only character who has developed over the course of the night.

When he first tells Max the story, I agree he's just passing it on in a cliched, small talk way, which is what makes interesting the fact that he eventually says it sincerely.

 

[Andy Boenau]

Just like Obi-Wan Timobi, I too just got around to COLLATERAL. Actually, I had a Jamie Foxx weekend - went to see RAY the next night.

9/10.

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I'm sure my reasons have already been covered. Even knowing the general plot from the trailers, I still had a knot in my stomach from start to finish. That's a compliment to Mann for his tense story. The acting all around was just incredible. I thought Foxx outdid Cruise, frankly. He WAS that LA cabbie. Every character feels real, but the relationship that is established between Vincent and Max is amazing. The fact that we care so much about these two guys, and feel like we understand what's going on in their heads is a real testament to Mann's film making.

Artistically, there were so many fantastic moments, but my personal favorite was the whole night club scene. That situation is Mann at his best. From the moment the Feds, the gangbangers, and Vincent enter the building, anything can happen. Maybe no shots will be fired... or maybe no one gets out alive. I LOVED that scene!

I loved MANHUNTER, LAST OF THE MOHICANS, THE INSIDER, and HEAT, but this one takes the cake in my opinion.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Finally got around to this one the other night. I could deal with the coincidences up to a point (I realize that they serve the theme of the film), but the movie was completely derailed over the final 30 minutes by Plot Devices That Make You Go Hmm. (Spoilers ahead!)

• The Fever club scene. 599 people go nuts and run for cover. The one guy who's a federal witness, and thus probably paranoid to begin with, sits tight as though nothing is happening. I don't want to have to think about why that character is behaving that way during such a chaotic scene. If there's a good reason for it, then throw me a bone and show me what it is so I can pay attention to the rest of the scene.
• The taxicab crash. This was the point at which the film lost me, and I'm shocked that this hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. (I guess you could say it jumped the shark when the cab jumped those construction barriers. ) The car flew through the air, flipped three times, and bounced upside down (apparently it had the reinforced roof of a race car); and two passengers who weren't wearing seat belts got up after a minute and were completely unharmed (except for a few makeup bruises)? What was Mann thinking? Either make the crash less violent, or have the characters incapacitated and end the story there. Watching them shake it off and then run like Olympic athletes the rest of the way was just silly.
• The Federal Building sequence. No alarms; one guard; Vincent killing the power on the 16th floor when his victim most likely has no reason to be nervous, and when *he's* the one feeling his way through an unfamiliar environment; not to mention his hesitation in shooting his victim -- don't they have test audiences for this stuff? Max's actions here I can buy -- he's still out of his element and freaking out, and thus isn't making the logical decisions (including running away instead of looking for a cop inside the hospital during that sequence). Vincent is another story.
• The shootout at the end. I suppose the explanation is that the dents in the door match the two-in-the-chest-one-in-the-head pattern, while Max's amateur shot penetrates the window -- I'll have to check that again. Still, I think that it should have been made a little clearer. The viewer shouldn't have to go back and watch it again to catch something so key, especially when missing it renders the action ridiculous. Of course, there's also the ol' "character receives mortal gunshot wound, but doesn't react to it in any way at first so the audience will have a moment of suspense as to who got shot" trick. Oy.
• One thing that I didn't really think about until afterwards -- they made a big deal about how Tom Cruise practiced being nondescript, making a UPS delivery and all. You'd think that Vincent would want to be as anonymous-looking as possible, yet he stands out like a sore thumb. What's with the unusually silver hair and the matching tailored suit? They mentioned in the notes that they wanted it to look like something that was tailored in Asia, not the US or Europe. Why the heck would he wear something so striking?

That all said, I enjoyed the film for the most part, and definitely appreciated the sense of style. It's just a shame that they let the plot get away from them so badly that it detracted from the other layers of the experience. Just because these plot devices are not the main focus of the filmmakers doesn't mean that they can't distract the audience from the more important things.

 

[JamieD]

Maybe so you notice the hair and the suit (both easily changed) and not the face?

 

[Jeff Adams]

I don't think that this movie is even close. Just as many have said, there are too many mistakes and too many plot holes that keep this good film from being a very good film let alone a great film like Heat. And of course this is just my opinion. Not to say that I didn't like this movie.
I enjoyed this movie very much. Very entertaining and Foxx and Cruise were perfect together. There were just too many things that felt out of place and did not make sense. I just had to turn off my brain for certain parts of the movie.

This is a movie I can watch over and over again and enjoy, but as far as it being a classic like Heat. Not even close.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

That would make sense if he'd brought along a change of clothes.

 

[Brandon B]

His suit and the wig are reversible.

BB

 

[Aaron Silverman]

He can wear the pants on his head and use the wig to cover his privates!

 

[EricW]

i've seen office buildings at night where there's only 1 or 2 guards in the lobby, but yes, a suspension in belief is required there. maybe if 2 bodies were shown?

for me the whole Vincent-going-to-the-hospital was the biggest leap of faith required. i guess you have to believe that at that point, Cruise's options were either kill Foxx and find another cab, or go to the hospital - although there were probably other options.

but i still enjoyed the movie, and enjoyed it more on further viewings.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Keep in mind though that it's the Federal Courthouse, not just an office building.

But I agree, there were worse disbelief issues in the film than that.