*** Official COLLATERAL Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

Yes other then the ending it was a terrific movie.
I was hoping that Vincent didn't die,and would just disappear from the subway,as a final shot.However that would had been in contradiction with his last words.
I bet Cruise was doing his stunts again,and I liked the "gray" look,it served his character well,and it was "different".

 

[Chris Harvey]

I actually took this as a subtle hint that Vincent did a similar sort of job in the Bay Area years earlier, but obviously there are many ways to interpret the comment.

 

[Steve Felix]

I think the comment is meant to confirm to us that Max will die at the end of the night even if he follows Vincent's orders. Whether it refers to Vincent specifically is a mystery, but I think it may as well.

LOVED the movie, by the way.

 

[Steve Felix]

I saw it on film and the cab interiors definitely looked rather flat. This isn't video's fault though, it's a lighting choice. They were flat lit for realism (I guess).

This movie is a pretty bad test case for the state of film vs. video since the video portions weren't "properly" lit. They actually used in-camera gain to get the levels they wanted, which is where the digital grain comes from. That grain really sells the idea that they're on the streets at night and not on a cushy sound stage, though.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

While I think Tom Cruise was amazing in this movie (his expression, delivery, and overall acting style were terrific), I'm not sure this is an oscar-calibre performance. This movie will go down as one of the year's best, but I'm not sure it's THAT good (though, with the Oscars, one could wonder if it even has to be good to win).

Rather than this being Cruise's "Monster," I think it's more his "Training Day."

The visuals were stunning. I'm amazed at how beautiful this film comes off, considering the subject matter and it's portrayal.

Overall, a great film and an entertaining movie.

 

[Chazz_S]

Yep saw it in Digital Projection as well, in hollywood. And I think the cinematography and HD video approach actually brings out a very accurate and realistic looking L.A. imo, very surreal.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'll save the review for the review thread. I wanted great, and got excellent, so I can chalk it up as a win.

I did have some issues with the Hollywoodization of some elements (I knew who Vincent's fifth target was before I saw Vincent, and the aforementioned cell phone gag), but enough of the film was outstanding to make those minor quibbles. Foxx does a wonderful job (and is really the main character), while Cruise just plays a shark. And extremely well. The two shared some wonderful scenes.

And enough cannot be said about Michael Manns work. A very visual director, who ranks up there among the very best. He continues his trend of brilliant shooting in major cities, and a top-notch score that perfectly complements the film.

Worth watching in a theater,
Chuck

 

[BennyD]

Collateral is an excellent film. With that being said, it is not without its problems. The biggest of which (which is actually pretty nit-picky) are...

(In chronological order)
1. When Vincent and Max are pulled over by the police car I was very impressed by the presence of the actor that was directly outside Max's door. I especially thought that it was very realistic when Max tried to talk him off and the officer simply asked him to get out of the vehicle and opened the door for him. However, as mentioned previously, the call that came in just as Vincent was getting ready to pounce seemed a little too coincidental and cliched. I was a little disappointed that with Mann's brilliance he couldn't come up with a better resolution.

2. It gives away the payoff of Annie being the fifth target too early. Both my girlfriend and I had a feeling from about 20 minutes in that she would somehow get in Vincent's path. And I knew for sure what was going to happen immediately following Vincent shooting the cop in the Fever nightclub and then saying "head downtown". Reflecting a bit there is almost too much foreshadowing, but I'm not entirely sure if thats a bad thing or not.

3. As mentioned earlier, Max killing Vincent on the train was too hollywoodized. Based off Max not knowing to take the safety off when trying to shoot the window in the office building lobby, it's safe to assume that Max is below amateur status with a firearm. Yet even though it was climactic for them to jump out and face each other guns blazing, it didn't feel realistic to Vincent's character. You would think a trained killer would know to slide out in a crouched position at the minimum in order to avoid being shot, similar to his moves in the nightclub. Plus the film would have been perfect if Max had made his stand and lost, adding tragedy to the fact that he stood up for the girl Vincent had been telling him to cherish and call all night only to be gunned down with her.

One of the things that bothers me about this movie and Heat, is like it or not Mann makes you feel for and understand the villain. It would have been perfect for Neil to kill Waingro and walk off into the sunset, just as it would have been perfect for Vincent to walk off into the sunset. However, Hollywood seems to scowl at the bad guy winning, even though in the case of a hitman vs a cabby the hitman will win 99% of the time.

Overall though, all three points are rather small and the film as a whole is excellent. With a few minor revisions it could have been perfect.

 

[ZacharyTait]

I knew Annie was the last target at the beginning of the movie when her and Vincent passed each other on the stairway. Anytime in the movies, you introduce a secondary character before the main character, and they cross paths, odds are that they will meet again in the future.

The low batteries on the cell phone and the coincidental call-in of the cops are about the only two nitpicks I have. Other than that, it's the best movie of the year so far.

****/****

 

[Mario Bartel]

I think it's important to note that, unlike most of Mann's other films, like Heat, Ali and The Insider, he didn't write the screenplay for Collateral; maybe that's why the ending felt a little more "Hollywood," and seemed to lack Mann's usual precise attention to detail.

Also, while Mann is a critical favorite, his films don't tend to do breakthrough box office, and his last big studio pic, Ali, was generally considered to be a bit of a disappointment. With Cruise headlining Collateral, Mann has the potential to reach a new audience that would be more attracted by his star power than the director's pedigree. That also means there's more at stake for the studio, which, as we all know, usually means "safe," Hollywood endings that send the paying customers home happy, reassured that good has triumphed over evil again.

 

[Quentin]

In fact, this script has been floating around for something like 10 years. Mann did do a polish, which I think shows in some of the more "attention to detail" scenes.

The subway story that provides Vincent's final thought even feels/sounds more like a NY story than L.A. I wonder if the original script was set in NY?

Overall, I really love this film. It does have a handful of problems/flaws that I think originate in the original script. Let's face it - if this stars Steven Seagal and Jim Belushi and is directed by Simon West, it is totally forgettable. But, it just goes to show you how incredibly talented people (Mann, Cruise, Foxx) can elevate material to an all new level.

 

[Kevin Reckelhoff]

I may be in the minority on this one. During the Club Fever scene I was dreading an Arlington Road type ending, and after Max failed to kill Vincent with the first shot in the office I was convinced it was going to happen. All in all, I was pleasantly surprised to see Max walk away unscathed.

 

[Ken Chan]

I wonder if I would have enjoyed the movie just a teeny bit more if the trailers and commercials hadn't given away the first death (over and over and over).

Seemed like Max had time to take a few steps and finish off Vincent while he was still down. But then we wouldn't have the final bullet-fest and the closure with the subway story.

Pretty minor quibbles, though; a very good movie.

 

[Weston]

I've Been Thinking about Seeing but still don't know

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

The ending is definitely a bit of a puzzler since Vincent is shown, over and over, to be a killing machine. It seems outside the bounds of reality that 1) he would shoot off an entire clip at Max and miss, 2) that he wouldn't crouch or otherwise diminish his profile defensively.

I wonder if it wouldn't have worked to have both escape. Max is able to ditch Vincent on the train... In a metaphysical way, the dead man is still on the train (referring to Vincent's emptiness) while Max escapes (too risky for Vincent to come back for).

In any case, I very much enjoyed it, despite ending on a relatively sour note.

 

[teapot2001]

I'm not sure if Vincent's death was a result of that shootout because I didn't see severe bleeding or wounds that wasn't there before. Maybe he knew he was going to die?

~T

 

[ThomasC]

I'm pretty damn sure I saw a bullet wound on his chest, or in that area.

 

[Tim Glover]

Yes. I took in my 2nd viewing tonight and Vincent pulls his coat away and looks down at the wound in his chest.

I posted a follow-up review but simply loved this film again. Boosted my rating to a 5/5.

I caught a bit more this time around too. Anyone else noticing how clean, balanced, and yet dynamic sound mix this film has? Terrific. The city sounds are heard that bring a sense of reality and the gun shots are truly dynamic. There was one scene when I thought I had been shot. :b

Great stuff and easily one of the year's best.

I would love to see Vincent and Bourne go at it. Vincent's evil determination and unflinching ability vs Bourne's physical ability and intelligence. Wow.

 

[NickSo]

If vincent didnt die, maybe the CIA coudld have hired him to take out Bourne for the Bourne utimatum

 

[ThomasC]

How about Vincent vs. Ethan Hunt?