*** Official CINDERELLA MAN Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Grey]

If Crash's DVD campaign is conducted right I would put it higher in the running for that one traditional pre-holiday Oscar slot than Cinderella Man. Crash really seems to have connected quite a bit. It would surely be a major contender if it had been released at the holidays.

 

[Joe Hsu]

Seems like I'm in the minority here, but I found CM's cliches to be more palatable than Crash's. I guess it comes down to the fact that with Cinderella Man, I knew what to expect of a Howard+Crowe+Zellweger+Giamatti film, whereas my expectations of Crash were much higher than they should have been.

This is not a movie that was made to set a standard or to open your eyes and say "wow". That being said, I enjoyed my 2 and a half hours immensely save a few caveats.

 

[Holadem]

Really? I dunno... Crash has my #1 spot so far this year, but it will be forgotten by the Powers That Be by the end of the year. Even if it were released in Dec, I wouldn't bet on a nomination. But then again Traffic which is somewhat similar in it's structure to Crash was nominated in 2000 (and should have won :p)) so go figure.

As Seth mentioned, Cinderella Man will probably grab the pre-season nomination, unless it tanks at the BO, which is a very real possibility looking at the opening numbers.

--
H

 

[Mick Wright]

It's not fair to call Braddock an extortionist, or to question his character like that. Joe Louis had absolutely no right to a title shot after the 12 round beating that Max Schmeling gave him--the shot at the title was rightfully Schmeling's. Louis got it by buying it with the 10% offer that Braddock would have been a fool to refuse. Schmeling was cheated out of the title by the financial maneuvering of Louis' backers, and again later when Louis knocked him out with an illegal kidney punch. Still, it's good that Schemeling never regained the title because of his Nazi ties--that would have been a blow to the morale of the free world. See The Fight, it's a great documentary about all this.

As for Braddock, he fought Joe Louis for eight rounds barely being able to lift his left arm. Joe Louis later said hitting Braddock was like hitting cement, and that Braddock was the most courageous man he ever fought. There is no greater story in the history of boxing than that of James J. Braddock, he was a great example of courage and class.

And, oh yeah, aside from unfairly vilifying Max Baer, I liked the film quite a bit.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Mick, I don't recall The Fight claiming that Louis knocked out Schmeling with an illegal punch. I do recall the famous scream that Schmeling made though.



It seems like people who are lukewarm to the film as a whole still like the last portions, eg. the big fight. But this is exactly where I'll file my dissent. Not knowing much about Baer, I don't have a personal stake in his reputation. But when the film started to make Baer an incredible A-hole, I was annoyed at the filmmakers. Why can't they trust a championship bout with a great comeback story to be dramatic enough?

Instead of trusting the material, the storyline adds in the Baer the bad guy, then adds in the big fear of death, then adds in the Zellweger character's reluctance and coming back to "standing behind her man." During the fight, Howard must have cut at least four times to Braddick's children listening to the fight, not to mention Zellweger tortured looks. Seriously, the fight and Braddick's story IS dramatic. I really didn't need all that repeated emphasis.

 

[Haggai]

I think the "Max Baer = preening jerk with hos" set-up paid off nicely with the trash talking between him and Gould in the ring, with Braddock getting a few good shots in while it happened. It added an extra element of active teamwork between Gould and Braddock that I liked a lot. Also, regarding the fear of death, I think that's actually true to life, that Baer really had basically killed a couple of guys in the ring. My understanding of it is (corrections welcome from people who know more about it) that Baer was quite nervous about this, so the filmmakers did take license by making him arrogant and threatening about it, but I don't think that's unjustified for the purposes of the story.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm glad you feel that way, but my opinion about Braddock and Lewis's handlers is quite different. Furthermore, if Louis didn't deserve a title shot then Braddock shouldn't have received one too. Also, give me a break about that kidney punch because I'm sure the great James Braddock never threw such a punch in the ring.






Crawdaddy

 

[Mick Wright]

Fair enough. I'm sorry if my posts have read negatively re: Joe Louis. I have nothing against the man, he was the most successful heavyweight champion in history, and righfully an American hero.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Braddock has around 20 losses in his career, including 4 losses in the last 10-11 fights he had prior to the Baer fight, so if you're going to question Louis's shot at the title then I have to do the same for Braddock.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

I too have read this online in the wake of this film. But I haven't heard about Braddick's fear. And furthermore, this is exactly the lack of trust in the audience that I feel disappointed in. It reminds me of The Hurricane, where the filmmakers painted an individual as villainous while the story was inspiring enough without the villain. Painting the opponent as intimidating and powerful is fine, eg. Miracle did it with the imposing Soviet captain, and Ali did it with Ali's reaction to Foreman, but neither of those films decided to make the enemy into a caricature--and those were based on real people too.

Oh well, besides the surroundings of the last fight, I liked the picture too.

 

[Patrick Sun]

That's going to leave a mark...

 

[Malcolm R]

Doesn't he always? :rolleyes

The man needs some serious counseling.

 

[Tim Glover]

He needs to remember when he said, "what we do in life, echoes in eternity..." or something like that. I think he's a brilliant actor, but Russell, get a hold of it or it will ruin your career.

 

[Haggai]

Seen the movie yet, Tim? I think you'll definitely like it, if you haven't.

 

[Mike.P]

In reponse to "Crash" getting best picture nod's, while I found it entertaining, it lacked the overall quality of "Cinderella Man". "Crash" was a bit too light on certain characters being developed, and there were times where some of the conversation was simply TOO staged sounding. Overall, I'd put it as an excellent directorial debute for Paul Haggis, but it fell short of being a best picture type of film. a solid B- or B, but nothing higher then that.

 

[Tim Glover]

Just got back from seeing it Haggai. Loved it. I missed the first 10 minutes though but slowly became captivated with the film. The final 30 minutes had me literally gripping my huge wad of napkins so tight that I'm kind of shaky right now. Some may find it predictable but I didn't. I went in with NO knowledge of Jim Braddock at all so that may have helped.

Wonderful script, craft directing, great acting. The first time I've really liked Renee Z since Jerry Maguire. Crowe is tremendous. Giamatti deserves the Oscar now for supporting role. He was AWESOME.

 

[Robert Crawford]

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Cinderella Man" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "Cinderella Man" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


Crawdaddy

 

[Brent Bridgeman]

Ummmm....hence the moniker "Cinderella Man"??? I think he explained his questioning of Louis' title shot pretty well. It all has to do with beating all the top-ranked contenders. Business-wise, Braddock would have been foolish to turn down 10% of future purses when it was offered. Blame Louis' management for this gaffe, not Braddock.

Someone else mentioned Schmeling's Nazi ties without going into detail (kind of like the American press at the time). For the record, Schmeling was vehemently anti-Nazi and actually tried to help some Jewish friends escape the Nazis during Kristallnacht.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Fact is that Braddock wasn't a great boxer and he loss the only title defense he gave which was to Louis.

 

[Brent Bridgeman]

Again, hence the moniker "Cinderella Man". Remember what happened to Cinderella at midnight? I don't remember calling Braddock a great boxer, he got the title shot because he beat the top-ranked contenders. It's his story that is great.