*** Official BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Henry Gale]

Jay_B....threadkiller!
Really I was amazed this had not received a post in over a week. Why would I have to do a search to find a thread on a first run film of this quality?
Went to a 1PM showing in San Antonio today and it was sold out. Came back for the 1:45 screening which also filled up!
A great film and since we're mostly declaring ourselves here, I'm straight.
Will probably see this on the big screen again and I know I'll get the DVD.
Beautiful movie and well acted.
I'm gonna say this...
If you're a guy that thinks you don't want to see this because of the gay theme...well you probably already know what I think of you.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Bear in mind that it's still in limited release -- 269 theaters according to Box Office Mojo (up from 217 during the Christmas week). Even that's a faster expansion than Focus Features originally intended.

M.

 

[teapot2001]

I pretty much agree with Quentin. For the time they were together, the characters' emotional love for each other just never really came across and the relationship seemed to exist on a physical level. There's another forbidden love story with little dialogue that is currently out which I feel is better: The New World.

~T

 

[Robert Ringwald]

It's really upsetting that people had such heartbreaking coming out stories. I don't ever plan to tell my father and haven't spoken to him in almost two years. He's the type who'd disown his own children because of it.

The way I see it, if parents are so rotten as to disown their own children because of their prejudices, then they're not worth having in your life anyway.

But, back to the movie...

Am I the only one who found the whole "bashing" to be ambiguous? I thought personally that it might NOT have been a bashing, but Ennis automatically assumed it had been because of the horrible childhood memory he had of the older man who was bashed. The "flashes" appear to be nothing more than his own mind showing him what happened. Leaving the audience to decide what actually happened.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Hmmm. Could it be you are missing the point? These guys didnt know what they were experiencing. They could barely show emotional or physical love for their wives. You think they knew how to express it to a man?

 

[Quentin]

I think Twist did, clearly.

Unfortunately, we barely saw WHAT they felt or did with their wives. This was a horrible weakness of the film. It glosses over that part of their lives with montage and a couple key scenes. There is simply not enough to really get into.

As for Ennis - yes, he had a hard time expressing anything to anyone. Oddly, he is the one character who (through Ledger's performance more than anything) shows the audience the MOST emotion in the film. His reaction when they part for the first time, his anger toward his wife, and the final scene of the film. He's an interesting character brought to incredible life by a perfect performance...but, it's not enough to save the movie.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

I think it would have been pretty interesting to see more interaction between the husbands and wives in a different film, but I think the film already indicates that there isn't much of a relationship at all, so I did not feel it is a weakness.

Robert, I agree with your interpretation.

Watched part of CTHD the other day, and noticed that Lee uses a similar framing for the last shot of Brokeback as a Chow and Yeoh conversational scene. Both show nature in a frame, but outside what the characters can reach to.

 

[teapot2001]

I don't think I missed anything. Jack clearly knew he was gay, while Ennis had a harder time dealing with it. At the point Ennis met Jack, he was going to marry the girl; whereas Jack seemed to have trouble finding a man and had to settle for a girl. They didn't show any emotions for their wives because they were going through the motions of what was expected of them by society and they were more interested in each other. If I hadn't known this was a story about two men in love with each other, I don't think I would have been able to guess that they were falling for each other while herding the sheep. Ennis, or even Jack, didn't need to be expressive characters for us to be shown why they would fall in love with each other.

~T

 

[Haggai]

I think the way that scene was shot makes it pretty clear that the bashing was what really happened (or that Ennis' vision of it was close enough to the truth anyway). The reason is that Lureen and Ennis are both shown in the scene, and she definitely seems to be hiding something. If it really was just an accident, like the way she described it to him, then why do we see her on screen? Everything for Ennis is ambiguous: he hears one thing, but he thinks/sees something else. But if her story is the truth, then she's just there for exposition, telling a sad story about how her husband died in a strange accident. You could shoot the whole scene without seeing her--staying on Ennis the whole time, and just hearing her voice on the phone--if that was really the case. The audience would then identify completely with Ennis: we would only get the information over the phone, just like he does, and we would see what we thinks is the truth. But we also wouldn't have any more information than him--we wouldn't know any more than he does about what the truth is. So the point of showing both of them, I believe, is to show the audience that the two characters are linked in the ambiguity of the situation. They talk about one version of events, but both of them know (or "know," in Ennis' case) that the truth is something else.

Also consider that we only hear her description of the accident, but we get a visual interpretation of the death by bashing. Cinematically speaking, this is certainly assigning more value to one version of events than the other.

 

[teapot2001]

Anyone know how Jack died in the short story?

~T

 

[Sean Laughter]

In the short story Jack's death is presented in pretty much the same way as in the movie - Ennis hears it over the phone but assumes Jack was really beaten to death. I don't remember feeling certain the beating actually happened when reading the story, but the way it's presented in the film makes it implied that that's what really happened I suppose. Still, just knowning the story and thinking of it that way I still see how the flashback to the beating is really all in Ennis' head, so it could possibly not have happened that way.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

My interpretation of that scene is as follows. Basically, showing her own scene when she describes what "happened" shows us that like Ennis, she also thinks it could have possibly been something else (like a bashing) but the point isn't to say to the audience "jack was gay bashed" the point being conveyed is "She knew deep inside..." She knew Jack was gay, and might be making assumptions about his death as well.

The ENTIRE point of showing the brutal image in Ennis's mind is what drives his character. His unwillingness to settle with Jack is a direct result of the horror he saw as a child, so the idea that jack might have died in a similar fashion even though they never GOT to live together... it's all the more painful. If it happened one way or the other, that's beside the point, because all that matters is that Ennis THINKS it was a bashing, and that's what ultimately pushes his character's final motivations at the end of the film.

 

[Henry Gale]

The plot also reminded me of another favorite movie, Same Time, Next Year (1978).

For the Freaks and Geeks fans, Linda Cardellini has an important role.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

I thought of Same Time Next Year as well because the characters meet up every year or so.

 

[Scott McGillivray]

I have not seen this film yet, but it sure sounds like a solid drama. I read the script a long time ago, but that was because I was auditioning for a role. Seeing that this is doing so damn well it really chokes me up that I did not get the part. :frowning:

 

[Jefferson Morris]

Why are we spoilerizing? Because the film is still in limited release? Well, just to be safe...

Vickie said: "I felt that Jack's father telling Ennis about Jack's plan was extremely cruel, and that he did it out of malice and hatred."

That was my take on it as well. The old guy was trying to convince Ennis that he was just one in a series. Another fling. Ennis didn't buy it, and I didn't either.

A terrific film, I thought, one of the best this year. I'll be pulling for Heath Ledger at the Oscars.

--Jefferson Morris

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Why have hate for the father, though? Like Ennis, he was just another slave to his reality. You may not like it, and it certainly was cruel. But like father, like son.

Still a great film. I just think it's even more layered than Ennis and Jack alone

 

[MichaelBA]

Gene Shalit in "trouble" with GLAAD.

 

[Vickie_M]

Shalit's a bigoted idiot. He acts like Jack held Ennis down and raped him. Ennis could easily have just left the tent that first time, and he didn't have to go back in the second time (one of the sweetest, most beautiful scenes I've ever seen on film). Shalit should apologise. If he doesn't like the movie, that's one thing, but spreading lies about the movie is disgusting.

 

[Quentin]

That is excessive, outrageous, and insulting Vickie. It is also careless, unless you have more proof than that article to back up such a claim. I don't like that word being thrown around carelessly. Am I a bigot? I thought the movie was pretty mediocre as well...

Shalit is a quote whore and a HORRIBLE critic. But, I've never seen indications he is a bigot. In fact, the most prejudicial statement I saw in the article comes from GLAAD: "But his baseless branding of Jack as a 'sexual predator' merely because he is romantically interested in someone of the same sex is defamatory, ignorant and irresponsible."

I didn't see the review live, but the quote makes no such inference that Shalit makes the idiotic jump that Twist is a predator solely because he is gay. That's one hell of a self-serving jump for GLAAD to make.

Shalit is not spreading lies about the film - he is giving his take. He is wrong - there is no indication that Twist is a predator. But, it's not a lie (unless proof comes out that Shalit is purposefully doing this...personally, I'd be surprised to hear he's that smart).