***Official Blue Laser Software Disc. Thread*** (f/k/a "Hi-Def DVDs by Christmas?") (1 Viewer)

[Brian-W]

Well Robert, was trying to factor in just the networks, but since you pointed it out:
- HBO Lot's of movies, great support , went P&S on us, so
- Showtime Mostly upconverted NTSC, and occasional HD, sometimes OAR, so
- HD-Net It's free, so can't complain, off to a good start
- HD-Discovery Been hearing about this for almost two years and no-show

 

[Dwayne]

I don't think anyone here would oppose HD-DVD, especially if it's backwards compatible with DVD. But like many others, I sincerely doubt the content providers will release anything in the format without having some mind-blowing encryption in place.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Actually, since Showtime does show many 2.35:1 HD movies in OAR each month (this week: Wes Craven's Dracula, Supernova, Bless the Child, plus various upconverts), I rank them as high as HBO for HD support. Yeah, Showtime shows a lot of upconverts, but HBO crops a lot. If we are really OAR supporters, we'd watch an OAR upconvert before a cropped film.

No matter what High-def is comming and nothing I think will stop it. The major studios will probably do there best to slow it down but if they can make that thing recordable there is no way they will be able to keep a 27 gig cd off the market...

All they have to do is not release movies in the format. Nobody can make them.
My prediction remains that in several years we will have a hi-def disc-based format supported by studios, and that it will be physically incompatible with any computer drives that support similar densities. It will have heavier encryption than anything before it, and there will be an agreement by the electronics industry not to make compatible computer drives. In fact, there will probably be legislation banning compatible computer drives.
I like 2008 or 2009.

 

[Ricardo C]

*sigh*

Think I can talk New Line into selling me a 35mm copy of Lord of the Rings in case HD DVD doesn't come to pass? :p

 

[Norm]

RobertR,

Oh, HD-DVD would be wonderful. And lo, the studios know how many lust for it: hi-def optical copies of their precious intellectual content. May as well sell prints. I can see the studios really going for that.

1).The consumer will demand HD-DVD, thats why we will get.

2). Its a cash cow they would never sit on it!

3). You will be able to copy HD off TV, and put it on DVHS. Heck some people are coping DVDs on multiple CDs right now. I'm sure some will figure out how to use recordable DVDs, the same way.

 

[CharlesD]

I would bet that the new players will play standard DVDs as well as being HD-capable. There will be some HD content out there for these players, just not from the major studios..

I think the most use for this format, at least initialy, will be for standard DVDs, except you can easily put 4 disc worth of extra special edition on one disc. It will solve the P&S vs widescreen thing as there would be plenty of room on one disc as well as multiple sound tracks. You could put entire season of TV shows on one disc. So there's plenty of "added-value" to these things without undermining the current DVD market. If these things come out with recording availability also they would be an easy upgrade for many people.

Hopefully more HD will come later, but it often takes the studios some time to face reality.

 

[Kwang Suh]

There's no way in stinking high heaven that HD-DVD will come out in that form. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. HD-DVD by Christmas? Never.

The DVD market is just starting to get milked. HD-DVD would be DOA.

Encryption? If the player can decrypt the HD-DVD, someone out there will crack it. Doesn't matter how good your encryption is. They could triple-DES it forty times over with 1024-bit keys, and it'd still be broken. Placing encryption on a HD-DVD is stupid. It's like having the biggest lock in the world, and then having the key in the lock, ready to be turned. The execs in Hollywood have yet to figure this out, as they have absolutely zero idea how solid, workable encryption works.

We will, however, see a superior format to 1080i in the next five years that will have a good niche market. Sorta like LD.

 

[DarrenA]

Peter K,

I don't think anyone in this post doesn't want HD-DVD to not succeed. Instead I think most of us know that it will be longer than next year before we see HD-DVD movies available.

Heck, I owned a JVC D-VHS deck back in late 1997, and it took over five years to get the first batch of pre-recorded D-VHS movies into the marketplace this summer. Just because a format was standardized today doesn't mean that we will see players and movies on the shelf by the end of this year or early next year.

Technically the current DVD format is five years old to us "early-adopters", but it has really only been mainstream since mid-1999 when the remaining DIVX supporting studios finally jumped on board with DVD. I just don't see the studios wanting to throw in a new format to cause confusion this soon in the early stages of DVD.

Besides, look how successful DVD-A and SACD have been since they were introduced two years ago? How much software exists in these formats?

 

[John Haghighi]

Any fan of High Defintion should read up on FMD. It defenitely has the best potential for being the format of the future and it can be compatiable with existing DVD software. The Widescreen Review article provides an excellent introduction to this format.

As far as pricing for HD-DVD material, I will not accept prices of $40-50 per disc, and anyone here that endorses or is willing to accept this type of pricing is insane. The High-Def masters already exist, the studios are making bank on DVD.

 

[Jason_Els]

I think what we're missing here is what the studios are seeing. For many years now they've been dishing out VHS but also producing laser discs for the higher-end videophile market. I think they're looking to re-create that market with HD-DVD. DVDs for J6P and HD-DVDs for the cinemaphile. With it will come the obligatory higher prices and rarity of titles. Until everyone has HDTVs in their living room this will likely be the norm. Doubtless they will market DVD to the folks who don't have HDTVs and HD-DVD to those who do and thus boost sales of HDTVs by providing the content the networks have failed to deliver.

Might I also add that theaters are turning into a liability for film producers. They're just another middleman cutting into studio profit. I think studios would love to have a direct revenue stream from production straight to the consumer. It would also stem the necessity of first weekend numbers being critical to a film's success. Certainly this won't happen overnight but I think it's the long-term goal. Home displays will only get larger, cheaper, and better.

I don't like this model but I would welcome HD-DVD ASAP though I do have to say I'm cutting WAAAAY back on my DVD purchases because of this news. I want to see how it pans out. I can wait and rent in the mean time.

 

[Ricardo C]

Jason, I think it's safe to keep on buying standard DVDs. HD DVD is still quite far away. Aside from that, I agree with most of what you said. I definitely see HD DVD as the "premium" format, in the same way LD spent its existence and DVD spent its first few years.

I don't think studios consider theaters a liability, but I do believe their desire to mazimize revenue from a single film will lead them to grant us access to the highest quality possible in terms of home video, which means they'll welcome HD home video with arms wide open.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

This is a very interesting topic. I see many pros and cons, but overall I can't help but come down on the side that this is something that should be held off. DVD is too new and only now really starting to pickup steam. A major shift in the format could really swear off many who can't afford such major changes every couple of years. And of course, if the new format players will not be backward-compatible, then this thing is DOA.

I'd love to hear from some of the most in the know folks here, Ron & Parker, what do you think about all this, and the fact Toshiba does not seem to be on board.

 

[William G. Lipe]

I really encourage all of you to read up on FMD(Flourescent Multilayered Disc). The advantages it has over our current and "future" reflective based dvd technology is astounding.
IMHO FMD should be the future, not "Blu-Ray Disc."
Here's the link:
http://www.c-3d.net/tech_frameset.html
WiGgLe

 

[Michael Martin]

I'm going to weigh in from the decidedly "non-htf-geek" POV. And I mean "geek" in the best ways.
While I think an increase in image and picture quality are always desirable, unless the Blu-Ray is backwards compatible with current DVDs, I am not at all excited about it. And I only have about 30-40 DVDs, as well as some boxed sets of TV shows. I know many HTF members have hundreds or thousands of DVDs -- are you telling my you're really willing to simply consign them to the trash bin? The prospect of having to repurchase all of those movies (many of which I only just bought in the last year) is angering and frustrating. While I love a great home presentation, I don't have thousands of dollars to throw at upgrading my movie library or the system I use to watch them.
I am not a J6P (OAR or death! ). HOWEVER, the idea that I will have to be continually replacing movies (to keep pace with technology and format changes) every 4 or 5 years is depressing and frustrating.
I realize I am probably going to be in a teeny tiny minority here with these views. But unless I win the lottery or inherit a fortune from a long lost relative, I simply don't have the money to keep making my system and movie library cutting edge.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Michael has some good points, kind of what I was alluding to in my earlier post. And another thing, just how 'bad' of a picture do you think your current DVD's give you. Compared to VHS it's like night and day better. It seems, to me, the quality of the picture I get from DVD is not so much a matter of the format, but rather the quality of the print and transfer the studio and manufacturer put out. Most of the high quality anamorphic transfers look great. While some of the poorer non-anamorphic ones look noticeably less. True, I have no doubt that some of the "HTF-Geeks", (again only in the best sense of the word), can see a big difference from DVD to HD-DVD, but for many who are already overwhelmed by the improvement over VHS, we just don't get it. And don't see that as a valid reason to throw the whole format into a tizzy, at this point in time.

 

[Matt Stryker]

I think the best case for any HD-Disc format would be to push it as a data-storage medium first; they are no stranger to high media prices, and I think that for the format to suceed it will need to be proven reliable first.
Bottom line, they should perfect (not just introduce) the method, players, and distribution channels, and sell the first models in 3-5 years. I don't want another $125 a movie format (LD) with little mainstream support and limited distribution channels. As others have stated, the studios do not believe that the market can support another format that will be wildly sucessful at this point.
The pictures show that it (at least the prototypes) come in a sleeved case, hopefully a non removable one that will prevent scratching.

(Image from BBC)

 

[DaViD Boulet]

FMD has already demonstrated that it has the answer:
http://www.c-3d.net/tech_frameset.html
It's a better answer than blue-laser. It has significantly more storage capacity, but also higher *bandwidth*.
C'mon people. Do you want the same DTS/DD wars with HD-DVD that we have now with standard DVD? Why not have every HD-DVD be a 'super bit' disc with all the extras you want and uncompressed DSD or 24/196 7 channel audio in 8 languages. You can...with FMD.
FMD is the better answer. But the Japanese firms didn't develop it so they don't want it. They've all been working on blue-lasers for the past 10 years and now they want to cash in.
It's a shame. I fear that a *huge* mistake in the next "disc carrier" format will happen because of the pride, greed, and ego of the companies who've been investing in blue-laser research.
-dave

 

[Norm]

Do you guys really think everyone's going to be happy watching DVDS on their HDTV in 2-10 years? DVD was always dead on arrival, especially with HD always around the corner. As soon as HDTV's are affordable we will all have them and be screaming for HD-DVD. I can't wait to get a HDTV & HD-DVD.

 

[William G. Lipe]

Amen, David
I couldn't have said it better myself.
WiGgLe

 

[Todd Hochard]

DVD was always dead on arrival, especially with HD always around the corner.

Somebody better tell the studios, who are making serious bank, and the 20,000 members of this forum, many who have hundreds of discs (myself included).:rolleyes
HD-DVD is to DVD, as SACD is to CD. Sure, SACD sounds better (generally speaking) than CD, but it doesn't make me want to throw every CD I own in the garbage. Most are still a satisfying listening experience. They are at the "good enough" plateau, if you will. DVD is no different. With a good player and HDTV, DVD is a very satisfying experience. Sure, HD is better, but the existence of HD doesn't make me loathe watching DVD (except some of the non-anamorphic ones, of course ).
I also think FMD is the much better answer. But, since the Japanese manufacturers have banked on blue laser, the lesser solution will be forced into the marketplace.
Todd