No progressive DVD output from XBox (1 Viewer)

[BrianB]

Why go to the PS2 which is a lot harder to make games for?

Because, right now, it's where the sales are.
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[Kelley_B]

Its all about the BLING! BLING!

 

[Morgan Jolley]

People bought a PS2 at launch in America and Japan knowing that Metal Gear Solid 2, Silent Hill 2, Final Fantasy X, and many of the big titles would come out on it. If people already have a console because they are waiting for a game that Konami is making (like MGS2) then why would they want to not put support behind the PS2? They know how the program for it now (Zone of the Enders was not a great game, but the graphics were really good) and if a project is a total failure, then they put it as a tax write off and don't lose anything.
But yes, it is about money.

Argonaut aren't a new XBox developer - they were one of the first signed on! Remember "Malice" at the CES launch? That's their game!

This was one of the more impressive exclusive X-Box titles, but now its for PS2, also. Just a little sidenote.

 

[Gary King]

and if a project is a total failure, then they put it as a tax write off and don't lose anything.

Exactly! That's how all business works.
Whenever our company makes a mistake (or individuals, for that matter), we just call the IRS and tell them about it. The tax agents are really nice folks (just like the pleasant chaps down at the SEC), and totally understand that, due to a miscalculation on our part, we just won't be paying taxes for the next 3 or 4 years.

If a game is a total failure (especially a big-budget title on the PS2, for example), the developer loses a whole lot of money. Companies have a very hard time breaking even in the games industry (let alone making a profit), which is why so many consolidations and closures are happening: Looking Glass, Dynamix, Ion Storm (Dallas, not Austin), Interplay, Origin... the list of game companies with financial problems is huge. Far more games lose money than make money.
Even if Square made $20 profit for every copy of FFX that they sold (a very optimistic amount), 1.7M copies were sold before $1 of profit was made. Very few games sell over 1M copies worldwide, and game budgets (especially on the PS2) are well into multiple millions. It is not a good time to be a game company.

 

[BrianB]

and if a project is a total failure, then they put it as a tax write off and don't lose anything.

Morgan, I know you're getting this from the Usenet rumours of Sierra doing this with the Half Life debacle on the Dreamcast.
I can tell you right now that if a project fails, it is *not* a tax write-off. It costs the company millions of dollars depending on the progress, just one game failing to get released can, and has, killed development companies.
You are very very wrong on this point.
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[Morgan Jolley]

1.7 million units? Square sold FFX for $75 and spent around $30-40 million making it. They more than doubled in profits what they spent making it. They actually made enough money to make another movie just from the profits, and that was only in Japan. The American and European releases have yet to come, so this game will make even more money.
Half-Life for DC was about to be released, but wasn't, so they wrote it as a big tax write-off. They can't do this with released games (I think) but they were able to with Half-Life since it was never released.

 

[BrianB]

They can't do this with released games (I think) but they were able to with Half-Life since it was never released.

Trust me, publishers & developers do NOT can games to be a tax writeoff. You're displaying a lot of naivete, Morgan.
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[Gary King]

Square sold FFX for $75 and spent around $30-40 million making it. They more than doubled in profits what they spent making it

You think Square made $75 in profit for every copy they sold?
A bit of that money goes to Sony. Then, each copy has to be packaged (Amaray cases with 50-page full-color manuals aren't free) and replicated. And retailers like making profits, too, so that's at least another $20. Every copy needed to be shipped to retailers... not a huge expense, but FedEx isn't a charity organization.
And then there's the marketing costs (which Square managed to largely avoid, due to arrangements with Coca-Cola), the support costs, etc.
Because Square charged 8800 yen for FFX, there's a change that they made $25-30 per copy... That still means that over 1M copies were sold before a dollar in profit was made, and they are nowhere near having earned enough funds from FFX to finance another $130M cinematic bomb.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Half-Life was completed but not released because they didn't think they could make any profit from it. I read it in a magazine that they canned the release and made it a tax write off, not on a usenet group.
Final Fantasy X sold over 2 million copies in a week, plus its still selling. They have yet to release it in America and Europe, so it will definitely make more money.
Considering that the FF movie has made over $100 million all over the world (except Japan) and is still making money, plus they are filthy rich, I don't think Square is too worried about much of anything. The film only bombed in America, but has done pretty well in other countries.
[Edited last by Morgan Jolley on September 13, 2001 at 06:26 PM]

 

[Adam Nixon]

Whoa, Morgan -- FF:TSW will be lucky to break even. The price tag for that was rumored to be over $150 mil; although a significant portion was for a digital studio that will be used by Square Pictures in the future. I'm not even sure if that figure includes advertising. It was a blow to Square, but they can absorb the loss and will probably still have a bright feature film future.
[Edited last by Adam Nixon on September 13, 2001 at 06:35 PM]

 

[Morgan Jolley]

It cost around $140 million to make, plus paying the actors and advertising. So it probably topped off around $150 million.
The film will be big in Japan. Its almost guaranteed.
At least $40 million was used to create the studio that Square used, and that studio will be used for games and more feature films. I hope that Square gets some professional writers to write some films for them, since I would love to see what they can do the second time around with better writing.
If you have seen the first film, you can say that it looked amazing. The story might have been a little off kilter, and the dialogue was mostly dulled out, but the film looked amazing. I wouldn't be surprised if it made profit after the DVD release and the theatrical release in Japan. Most people are buying the DVD for the Thriller video. Sorry for going off-topic.

 

[Bing Fung]

What, now Komani is leaving??? Where's the URL for this?
That is another reason I pre-ordered, based on the promise of Metal Gear X and progressive DVD.
This deal is sounding worse all the time

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[Adam Nixon]

Square Films is a work in progress -- they're only going to get better from here on out. Some entertainment sources reported that advertising costs may have run as high as $50 mil. I heard they really watered down the original script, which is always a bad thing.
What's up with all of this Konami leaving X-box talk? Is there a news link to this anywhere? It seems like Microsoft is caving in on itself -- has anyone heard the news about the "Homestation?" That'll curtail your enthusiasm for buying an X-box right out of the gate. Talk about counting your chickens...

 

[Shawn O]

The Homestation rumour has already been officially denied by M$.
Btw,didn't Sony finance a substantial portion of the FF movie,or was that just a rumor?

 

[BrianB]

Considering that the FF movie has made over $100 million all over the world (except Japan) and is still making money, plus they are filthy rich, I don't think Square is too worried about much of anything.

Filthy rich? Squaresoft? Sorry, Morgan, *listen* to us - they're not. They're financially *hurting* right now, even with the sales of FF10 in Japan. They've pumped *huge* amounts of money into PS2 development without showing a suitable return so far. They've pumped *huge* amounts of money into their film divison without showing a suitable return so far - so much so, their investors questioned the move at their last EGM.
That's why they're remaking the PSX FF games for the PS2. That's why they've released the Chronicle remakes for the PSX, etc. They *need* the money. Games like The Bouncer have had millions poured into them without any real results - certainly not on the scale they need to cover costs & make a suitable profit.
Here's a really good link - it's a verbatim report of SquareSoft investors talking to the management of the copy about their financial state.
http://www.video-senki.com/feat/ska/ska1.html
As for Konami, I honestly have no clue where these rumours started. First I heard about them 'scaling down' their XBox support was on here.
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[Gary King]

The first place I heard about Konami's "scaled back" Xbox plans was from C&VG... about the least reliable source for Xbox news this side of microsoftsux.com.
[edit]Morgan -- Square projected profits for this quarter at $22M... that includes all of FFX's sales. Hardly enough to finance another movie.
[Edited last by Gary King on September 13, 2001 at 10:36 PM]

 

[Chad Ferguson]

So perhaps this Konami thing is a Hoax?

 

[Gary King]

Hoax is a rather strong term.
C&VG certainly aren't the strongest supporters of the Xbox on the 'net, but I have a hard time believing they just start rumors they know to be false simply to confuse gamers.
More likely, C&VG (much like webloids The Inquirer and The Register) heard a little snibblet of a couple of stories from one or two companies, tried piecing together a story based on the largely worthless information they had, and managed to determine that 2+2=5. Web journalism is such a profitless pursuit that generating hits is far more important than maintaining perfect accuracy (inexactness can always be corrected).
Microsoft is being extraordinarily tight-lipped about significant third-party content (friends I have on the Xbox marketing team only have second- or third- hand information about some third parties), and Konami has some PS2 titles to sell before it starts hyping any potential Xbox releases.
And, I find it hard to believe that C&VG would know anything significant about the Xbox before my friends would, anyway.

 

[Chad Ferguson]

Why are they being so tipped lipped about their 3rd party support?

 

[Gary King]

Because there are a whole lot of titles worthy of attention that are getting released on the Xbox between now and whenever these unannounced high-profile titles are being released.
With all the attention focused on GT3, MGS2 and FFX on the PS2, for example, lots of sleeper titles went (or are going) largely unnoticed (Shadow of Memories, Herdy Gerdy, Run Like Hell).