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No progressive DVD output from XBox (1 Viewer)

Joel Mack

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Just got back from getting a refund on my pre-order at EB.
A most unfortunate turn of events...
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BrianB

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This is blatent false advertising, since MANY people have pre-ordered an X-Box based on Microsoft's earlier claims.
C'mon. They've changed the specs. It happens - did you claim false advertising when they reduced the clockspeed?
Sure, it's a bad move to do it this late before launch, but it's hardly a case of 'bait & switch'.
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Nothing In Particular
 

Michael St. Clair

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If anyone wants to make their point politely to somebody somewhat closer to the issue, RobbyD (a Microsoft DirectPlay program manager) is talking about the issue in this thread at AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/016057-4.html
Yes, he has confirmed that the functionality has been pulled.
I agree that Microsoft hasn't done anything you can sue them over, but this 11th hour bait-and-switch is poor business and shows a lack of planning.
 

Sean Oneil

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Brian, I disagree with your analogy. A change in clock speed does not completely disable the X-Box from playing games in 480p, nor does it seriously affect the X-Box ability to deliver on it's promises of being 'the most powerful gaming system'. But when you completely remove a feature from the 'spec' you are altering the abilities of the system in a big way.
Microsoft had promised that they would offer 480p DVD playback. This was to offer something more than the PS2 in that department since like it or not a lot of people (including several that I know personally) were interested in a PS2 because of it's ability to play DVDs.
Microsoft said in effect 'we will offer something much better' with the X-Box in the form of Progressive Scan DVD playback -so you the consumer should hold off on getting a PS2 and wait for the X-Box if you are looking for a gaming console that also plays DVD movies.
So, a lot of people that I know DID hold out based on Microsoft's progressive scan DVD claims, and now they will discover that the X-Box will not do what was promised (advertised) by Microsoft.
If you want to equate Microsoft's trumpeting of Progressive Scan DVD playback as a major selling point for the X-Box for almost a year, and then removing that ability after they have gotten a lot of people interested in the X-Box based on those Progressive DVD claims as a 'change in spec' rather than false advertising, then it is time to change the definition of what false advertising is.
What they have done is Definitely misleading, and I think Bait and Switch is EXACTLY the phrase for it. As a developer, you should know that a move like this can only hurt sales of the X-Box, and leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.
Will it still be a great gaming system, YES. Will it still play games in 480p, 720p, and 1080i? YES. Did Microsoft claim that it would play DVD at 480p? YES. Will it play DVD at 480p? NO.
Draw your own conclusions.
 

BrianB

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quote: Did Microsoft claim that it would play DVD at 480p? YES.[/quote]
Go show me a press release from Microsoft itselfstating that. All the PR about I know about is from other companies, from unofficial websites, etc etc.
I know xbox.com had 'progressive scan' listed in the specs (that they just changed) - I'd love to see a press release claiming progressive scan though.
[added]Just did some checking myself - the 'big' announcement of progressive scan was by the chairman of NVidia, February of this year.
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[Edited last by BrianB on September 10, 2001 at 01:19 PM]
 

Adam Nixon

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Feb 21, 1999
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A few weeks ago this forum had a debate over the X-box's "rumored" ability to scale DVDs to 1080i. We concluded that the hardware could support it, but I figured this wouldn't happen simply because the other major DVD manufacturers hadn't done it in their players yet. It wasn't logical to assume that a $300 game console could best an elite reference player.
As for this whole progressive scan debacle, it's not unethical to change specs as long as you do it BEFORE you offer preorders to the public. I know some people on this forum were basing their purchasing decision entirely on hardware specs -- I think MS has now proven that hardware doesn't mean squat in a console race.
This "bait-and-switch" is one of many reasons I haven't preordered yet. They've scaled back specs on the X-box repeatedly over the past year; whether it be the GPU core speed or hard drive support. Based on a lack of appealing titles and deceptive marketing, I'm not even sure I want an X-box now.
At this rate, Microsoft will be telling us that the X-box is only "marginally" superior to the GCN by spring.
 

Chad Ferguson

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alright, is this is true lets think about this:
1. I hate to put down such a great syste, but lets face it, the DVD player will probably just be a little bit better than thhe PS2's, so if you planned on getting for that then you were going to send the system back anyways. Now, the same goes for the people that are getting it just for the progressive scan part.
2. Sure the games would look better with this but lets face the facts, this system is still the strongest out there and notyhing is coming out anytime soon to beat it.
3. Sh*t happens, but I would like Mircosoft to release a press release stating why they did this.
Thank you
 

Camp

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LOL! This is too funny. The uber-system finally hits a speed bump.
I love the way Microsoft released this info..."let's leak it out rather than making an official announcement". After all, they never officially announced these features so why officially denounce them?
Of course, I'm bummed too. I was drooling over the potential of Xbox as a DVD player.
But now...Rouge Leader is looking even better.
wink.gif
 

Dean Cooper

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Well what can I say really, I'm a little pissed off that MS dropped the ball. I'm sure they have a good reason but there is no excuse about the way they have handled this and the gpu speed change. I think they should fire the fucking PR guy because he is doing one hell of a shitty job on this. Not the way to bring a new console to the market by any means. Hell I didn't really care about the DVD playback anyway, its just the way they keep fucking up and not announcing changes like this. If they were more straight forward and didn't pull this bait and switch crap I wouldn't be so upset about it and there wouldn't be so much confusion about this stuff. Sigh...what can you do, all of the game companies seem to get away with it. Well I guess that is the reason for the mysterious disappearance of the system specs on Xbox.com
Shame on you MS, fire that PR guy before he fucks up another thing. Changes aren't quite so bad if you let people know about them.
Dean
 

Sean Oneil

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MS did officially announce it. I will try to get over to the mall later on to get some photos out of the promotional book that MS supplied to retailers to support X-Box pre orders.
If you go into a major game retailer shop like EB or Software etc, they will (or did) have black books on the counter with all 'official' information direct from Microsoft about the X-Box specs. This is official information which clearly and prominently displays the Microsoft logo and the X-Box logo, and is clearly on display in major retail outlets. In this book, there is a page devoted to the progressive scan ability of the X-Box.
You might say that anything other than a 'press release' is unofficial, but that is nonsense because MS did nothing to state to the contrary.
I can't believe that anyone would defend MS on this. The X-Box has clearly been marketed as a progressive scan DVD capable gaming maching since it's inception (and yes, I have been following this since the very beginning, before Gates was even pitched the idea of a Microsoft gaming console).
I have been a supporter of the X-Box, but this stinks.
[Edited last by Sean Oneil on September 10, 2001 at 08:02 PM]
 

Adam Nixon

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My biggest problem with this issue is that they waited until the FOLLOWING week after preorders were announced to spring it on the public. They had no problem letting rumors sell their product, and they didn't even have the decency to compose a legitimate statement when the info was "leaked."
However, the X-box has successfully dethroned the PS2 in a way -- Microsoft has managed to elevate Sony as a paradigm of corporate integrity.
 

Todd H

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That is just plain wrong, and I hope that someone in the national media picks up on it, and it garners MS some bad press. Maybe then they will keep their word.
laugh.gif
Microsoft? Bad press? Imagine that!
This kind of idiocy is exactly why I picked the X-Box to finish 3rd in the upcoming console war. Microsoft just doesn't have any experience in the console market. They've already pissed off the one demographic that truly seemed excited about their console...home theater owners. Too bad too...it seems like a powerful game machine.
 

Chad Ferguson

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Todd: You may write off the Xbox now but you will eat those words later on. As for pissing off HT lovers such as myself, I doubt it hurts them much. Truth is, it's about the games and Xbox looks like it has them.
 

Dean Cooper

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Heh your acting like Nintendo and Sony are both clean. Fact is they all do it and get away with it. I'm not defending MS, just saying it looks like they know more about the console busniess than what everyone gives them credit for...in a fricken bad way.
Dean
 

Todd H

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quote: Todd: You may write off the Xbox now but you will eat those words later on. As for pissing off HT lovers such as myself, I doubt it hurts them much. Truth is, it's about the games and Xbox looks like it has them.[/quote]
I don't know...there were a LOT of HT buffs planning to get an X-Box because of the progressive DVD capabilies. And now those same people are reconsidering their purchases. Microsoft just keeps shooting themselves in the foot. Nintendo is making some mistakes as well...few launch titles, cartoon Zelda, lack of adult titles. Sony will come out of this thing smelling like roses. As for me, I was planning on getting a Gamecube, but now I'm leaning towards a PS2. As for eating my words, we shall see... :)
[Edited last by Todd H on September 10, 2001 at 09:53 PM]
[Edited last by Todd H on September 10, 2001 at 10:21 PM]
 

Camp

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Aww, the hell with it. Let's all buy a Nuon "enhanced" progressive scan DVD player and play Tempest 3 and Space Invaders!!
On second thought...
 

David_LM

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I also think this issue has been overblown. Talk about a case of false expectations. What true Home Theatre buff would think that a piece of hardware that is to be used and is marketed primarily as a game console could also double up as a high quality primary progressive scan DVD player. Most HT enthusiasts already have a primary DVD player, thus the DVD feature of the XBox would be used as a secondary or backup player.
I have talked to many people who have purchased the PS2 and have subsequently went out and bought a primary DVD player because of disappointment in the quality of the DVD side of the console. Regardless, the value is more than there with the power and DVD feature, to substantiate the $100 price difference between the Cube and the Box.
 

Gary King

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I don't know...there were a LOT of HT buffs planning to get an X-Box because of the progressive DVD capabilies. And now those same people are reconsidering their purchases.
A lot of HT buffs looking for a cheap progressive scan DVD player, who may or may not buy any games outside of the 3 that came bundled with the console.
If you're going to lose $100 per console, you should probably sell it to people who might eventually buy enough games and peripherals to be profitable.
I doubt progressive scan is permanently cancelled; however, with limited Xbox supplies, I can see merit in trying to get the console into the hands of people who want to play the games, rather than into the hands of HT buffs who want to watch movies.
Yes, I'm miffed about the removal of progressive scan playback (it would've looked great on my new HDTV), but the games are what sold me on Xbox, and they are still looking as sweet as ever.
 

Chad Ferguson

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Amen to that!!
On a side note, I heard that making the Xbox a progressive scan player was a matter of turning on a switch inside or some little data thing to tell the software to turn it on. IS this true?
 

Sean Oneil

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I am sure that the issue is just DVD playback software being purposefully limited. Someone could write a good software DVD player for the X-Box, or find a way to port WIN-DVD to the X-Box Hard Drive. Something to that effect could happen.
 

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