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New speakers require higher volume?

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Danklin26, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. Danklin26

    Danklin26 Active Member

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    I just hooked up a pair of yamaha outdoor speakers to my yamaha receiver and i have to turn the volume up significantly to get it as loud as i had with my previous cheap outdoor speakers. I was overdriving the first speakers(my receiver is 100 watts/channel while the speakers were probably 40 wpc) The new speakers are 100 watts handling so they do match, but why is the higher volume needed to drive these? Thanks
     
  2. homthtr

    homthtr Well-Known Member

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    First what was the ohm rating of the original outdoor speakers? If they were 4 ohm and the new ones are 8ohm that's the first issue.

    Then you have to look at the speaker sensitivity.

    It would take 4 times as many watts to drive a speaker with a sensitivity of 86dB than it would one with 92dB. You have to double the watts to get a 3dB increase in volume.

    A sensitivity rating of 86dB means the volume level is 86dB if you're standing a meter away from the speaker and if you're providing one watt of power to the speaker.

    Are your new speakers 8ohms?

    What is the ohm rating on the old speakers?

    What is the Sensitivity rating of the new Speakers compared to the old ones?

    What are the specs on your amp? Is it stable down to 4 ohms?

    If your receiver is stable to 4 ohms you may want to conceder 4 ohm speakers instead of 8ohm if that is what you purchased.

    Or getting a more efficient (higher) efficiency rated 8ohm speaker.
     
  3. JohnRice

    JohnRice Well-Known Member

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    The new speakers are lower sensitivity than the old ones. There could also be impedance issues, as was mentioned, but that is probably not a problem. There is nothing to "matching" the watt ratings of receivers and speakers. The fact is, watt ratings are so inconsistent, they mean almost nothing. From what you say, you may be capable of lower actual maximum "volume" with the new speakers than the old ones due to the lower sensitivity of the new ones.

    Why do you believe you were overdriving the old speakers? Is that based entirely on the rated handling? These things are far more complicated than that and it is rare to have problems stemming from too MUCH amp power. Problems are almost always due to having too LITTLE power.
     
  4. Danklin26

    Danklin26 Active Member

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    Thank you for the replies.

    The sensitivity of the new speakers is 85db. I'm not sure about the sensitivity of the old speakers as the specs are not written on the speaker. I believe they are both 6 ohm speakers. Do you think i should get speakers with a higher efficiency than that?

    Its not so much that i was overdriving the last speakers, but on my volume control on the receiver(which is a 100 wpc yamaha rx-v659) it would display a negative volume (maybe -25 for a decent vloume) and with the new speakers the volume has to go well up past zero to produce the same loudness. I know im probably not ruining either speaker as i never cranked up the volume much. My father and i were just curious why this was.
     
  5. JohnRice

    JohnRice Well-Known Member

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    Something sounds wrong with that. There may be a difference in sensitivity, but it can't possibly be a 25+ dB difference. 6 maybe, but not 25+.
     
  6. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Well-Known Member

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    Are the new speakers' cabinets somewhat smaller? Smaller woofers, especially acoustic suspension ones, tend to be less efficient.

    >>> too little power
    If you need to turn the amp. up to near the maximum position of the volume control, you need to be careful that loud peaks don't distort. Overdriving an amp. causes an overabundance of higher frequencies (compared with sounds and non-electronic music heard in real life) to be present in the output signal and this will cause tweeters to blow long before the rated maximum output is delivered to the speaker system.

    When a woofer has a long excursion, as smaller woofers do, either a long voice coil with a short magnetic structure (less efficient), or a short voice coil in a long magnetic structure (more expensive) is needed for good sound. This is because, for low distortion, the portion of the voice coil within the magnetic structure needs to be the same size at all times.

    Video hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  7. homthtr

    homthtr Well-Known Member

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    85db sensitivity on your new speakers is very poor.[​IMG]

    I would try to return/exchange those for a speaker above 90db prefreably 92, you will notice a big difference.
     
  8. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Wayne A. Pflughaupt Well-Known Member

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    A receiver’s volume control (pre-amp section) is calibrated in dBV (voltage). That does not directly equate to dB-SPL.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  9. keithVANhorn

    keithVANhorn Well-Known Member

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    If you are turning up the Yamaha receiver past the 0db setting ....Don't!!! You will burn up the amps in the receiver. The amps will start clipping and that's not good. With all our rcvrs we install, I put a max volume of 0db so the client cannot go higher and ruin the equipment.
     
  10. Danklin26

    Danklin26 Active Member

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    So Yamaha receivers are never meant to go above 0? Thats good to know, thank you. It turns out i was mistaken and the receiver doesnt have to approach 0 to be heard. Although it does have to go up 10db more on the volume control so probably -16 vs -26 with the old speakers.

    homthtr - well my father just bought these speakers last year and they are Yamaha brand to i expected them to be decent speakers. Although he still might upgrade to Polk outdoor speakers.

    Btw, the old set of outdoor speakers i found out had an impedance of 8ohm and were 25 watts. All they said was high efficiency, no value given.
     

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