Need updated advice on current technologies (1 Viewer)

[gene c]

The refurbed 708 from ac4l always looked like a great deal on paper but lately there's been more trouble with them than there should be. I'm going to have to re-think recommending them so quickly. Or at least do so with caution. I really hope things are on the right track. As for receiver reliability I guess thats one reason why I've choosen to stick with Pioneer (Elite). Never had a problem with any of them. Any Pioneer model with "Advanced" MCACC will have the 6 presets. This should include all Elite models and at least the top two Pioneer models. Many higher-end brands don't allow their receivers (or anything else) to be sold on-line. But there's a list of Authorized Dealers on Pioneers website and some of these do sell at least the lower Elite models on-line. You could always call them up and ask if they could do a phone order and what their best price would be. I've heard places like 6ave.com and jr.com will "adjust" their prices to meet other e-tailers. There's also a company called UnitedOnLine.com in Southern California that purports to sell Pioneer/Elite refurbs on ebay with a factory warranty but I've never looked into them. Then there's the ebay/amazon dealers that or not authorized. I've bought from them a time or two when I was really feeling cheap and it worked out well, for me anyway. You could always buy a SquareTrade warranty and ebays Buyer Protection Plan actually works. EDIT: I forgot to mention BestBuy. You can always walk into the Magnolia HiFi section and ask if they have any left-over 2011 models. Got my open box SC-35 for $649 (msrp $1800) that way. I currently have an Elite SC-35 and a vsx-23. Previous Pioneers were a 1014, 59txi (68 lb beast!), 94 txh (should have kept that one) and a vsx-32. Onkyo's I've owned: HT-500, 702, 805 (well traveled), Integra 9.8 pre-pro (should have kept that one too) and an Integra 8.9.

 

[raverell]

Gene: More complications with the subwoofer cable supplied by the builder. I got the Dynaco bulbs and put them in, and they look good. When I began the connection process, the subwoofer cable is made up of this: Outside shielding is yellow and I can't see anything printed on it that would help me. So I had to strip some additional wire off and found that there is a red, black, green and white smaller wires inside the main insulation. Any idea what the green and/or white may be for? Thanks.

 

[gene c]

That 4-strand wire is used for bi-amping and bi-wiring. Just use the black and red, leave the others un-used. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=100-768

 

[raverell]

HEY SOME BIG SUBWOOFER NEWS! I got in touch with a guy through a woman I know who works with the builder whose company did the installations of these surround sound systems in the houses. Kind of hard to talk to (eccentric?) but he told me to take a battery and touch the red wire to one end and the black wire to the other, and I DID GET SOUND from the subwoofer. So I connected up the speaker wires to the Dynaco, and ran a rca cable from subwoofer out to one of the channels on the amp, and NOTHING. He went on to say you can take the grille off the subwoofer in the wall, something I tried in the past, and it seemed like it would damage it, so I didn't. But I got it off without any trouble, unscrewed the sub housing and plucked it out of the wall. And there are 2 yellow cables, each containing a red, black, green and white wire. The two red and 2 white are connected to the positive (red) terminal, and the green and black are paired together to the negative terminal. Never seen anything like it. 4 wires to each terminal. Also found out that it is a Sensonic SS825 subwoofer. But at the other end, only one yellow cable comes out of the wall, and it has a red,black, green and white wire in it. So I guess I will pair the red and white, and the black and green, and connect them to the positive and negative terminals respectively. What do you think?

 

[raverell]

WELL, I MADE THOSE CONNECTIONS, AND IT DIDNT DO CRAP!!!! I do believe I have just about had it with this subwoofer. As I write this, I am openly weeping. Come on, man this can't be this hard!!

 

[Al.Anderson]

... ran a rca cable from subwoofer out to one of the channels on the amp, and NOTHING.

I'm not a sub guy, and I haven't been following this thread. But if you really ran from the subwoofer out, then would seem to be incorrect (I say seem because I'm too lazy to read the thread from the beginning); you need to run from the sub-in to the receiver.

 

[raverell]

I did try using just the black and red, and that didnt work either. Wasn't sure if I mentioned that in a prior post.

 

[raverell]

OK Fellow Forum Followers, this is my first post in a few weeks because much has been going on. I never mentioned that I am permanently disabled from being rear ended and pushed under a school bus in June, 1999. Thirteen surgeries later, I have two Medtronic intrathecal pain pumps implanted on either side of my belly that pump dilaudid into my cerebrospinal fluid on a constant basis. I have constant chronic neuropathic and orthopedic pain everywhere at all times. So, having to set up these receivers, then send them back and setup another, FOR BOTH NEW RECEIVERS I bought has been a little taxing. Gene: You mentioned in a prior post about hesitating to recommend A4L and Onkyo to people was something you should consider. Well, based on my experience, DEFINITELY DO IT. The second Onkyo receiver, which they swore they tested and was free of defect, started doing the same thing that the first receiver did, and that is random, wild, accelerated changing of Listening Modes and it will not respond to any remote control commands. Can't even turn it off with the power button on the front panel. You have to unplug it and plug it back in to turn it off and on. But there is no reason to because it just cycles like crazy through the Listening Modes. Here is where the hair on the back of my neck stands up. I called A4L on October 18 to tell them it was happening again. Then, I happened to plug it in again and everything was working OK again. I called A4L to inform them and to take note that it had happened again, just so they had record of it. Worked until Nov.7, when it was worse than ever. Cycling through Listening Modes so fast it didn't stop long enough to hear any of them. Back on the phone with A4L. The guy's name is Mark, BTW. I tell him I've had it with the Onkyo receiver, and I just want to return it and get a refund. He said he can't do that because its past the 30 day period to obtain a refund. I said that it wasn't, and that I received that 2nd receiver on Oct. 13th. Mark said "they don't go by that, they go by the original shipping date of the first receiver. WELL, ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT!! At that point I had smoke coming out of my ears. I called Onkyo again 3 or 4 more times, all they could offer was to send it to a Reg. Svc. Ctr for repair and send it back to me. I told them I simply don't want the receiver and they said I would have to work that out with the dealer, A4L. But I did get one guy to tell me to contact Mr. Jack Cooper, National Sales Manager for Onkyo, but I could only do so by email. He doesn't take telephone calls. I also got his mailing address. Haven't emailed him yet, wanted to give Mark or Tanya another couple of days to call me back, but that isn't going to happen. So, I guess I will be contacting Jack Cooper soon. On another related subject, after the first Onkyo went berserk, I told A4L I just want to return it and Mark said OK but I'm not going to find another receiver like this for the same money. I thought about it for awhile, called him and told him I would keep if under certain conditions. They were that they send me another different receiver, not repair the first one, and that they test it and determined it to be trouble free. He said no problem. Now, one of the Onkyo reps told me that there was a certain series of serial numbers of the affected units and I asked him to tell me what they were, but he said he really didn't have access to them. He told me that Jack Cooper would have them however. Just in case Mark simply sent me another receiver and didn't check anything related to the first receiver, and frankly, thats what I think he did. Bottom line ladies and gentlemen, DO NOT DEAL WITH ACCESSORIES4LESS IN ORLANDO, FL ESPECIALLY FOR ONKYO RECEIVERS unless you like grief and alot of it.

 

[gene c]

I've heard Onkyo's CSR was pretty bad but it's a surprise about ac4l.com. I know plenty of other members here have bought from them in the past and seem to be satisfied, but maybe it's because their receivers didn't have the problems your have had. The price/performance of an Onkyo refurb is hard to beat but if they continue to have these types of issues....Maybe ac4l will offer you a Marantz as a replacement? Doesn't hurt to ask. A 5005 maybe? BTW, the original "delivered" date is when I thought the 30 day clock started (not the shipping date). For warranty work, time is credited for the amount of time the item is in the shop. Man, trouble with a subwoofer and a receiver. This shouldn't all happen to one person. I actually haven't bought a receiver retail for quite a few years, except for an open box Elite SC-35 I got at BestBuy a couple of weeks ago. Works fine. Up till then I've bought them used from ebay, audiogon, cragslist, etc. So far after 12-15 receivers I haven't had problems with any of them. Heat issues with Onkyo and Integra but that was to be expected. I have a 3 year old Pioneer Elite 03txh coming in on Tue. But I have a hard time recommending that anyone else look for used equipment. Might have trouble recommending refurbs now too .

 

[raverell]

I left A4L an irate voice message over this and I filed for a refund on their website. A couple of days later, I got an email approving the refund. So I sent it back to Onkyo but I had to pick up the shipping costs. At least that thing is out of my hair. Gene, now I need to find another receiver and the number of choices out there is overwhelming. I thought I would stick to either Pioneer Elite, Marantz or Denon, but I don't want to get into a whole lot of money. I definitely want a 7.1 receiver, preferably with Audyssey Calibration, but I don't need Zone 2 capability. I printed out a bunch of material on receivers from those three manufacturers and now have to go through it, but can you point me in the right direction. Next week is Black Friday, so good prices should be out there. Thanks.

 

[gene c]

Are you going to buy from a brick-and-morter store this time or are you still open to (other) internet sites? OneCall.com Vanns.com jr.com Tigerdirect.com are solid internet sites (but I thought ac4l was too ). Woot!.com had a new Pioneer 1021 for $289 + 5 shipping today but they've sold out. Performance wise, the Pioneer 1121 (and Elite 52), Denon 2312 and Marantz 5006 are the closest to the 708. Price wise, as a refurb from ac4l.com it's more like the Pioneer 1021 (Elite 51) and Denon 1912. The Marantz 5006 would be quite a bit more from ra etail store but can be found for under $500 shipped on the net. IMO Yamaha and Pioneer are the most trouble-free receivers on the market followed by Denon. But like anything else, ask three different people and...But their amp sections in that price range won't be quite as stout as Denon, Marantz and Onkyo. But they would be good enough for most situations. Denon and Marantz are nearly identicle in performance these days. I prefer Marantz for no particular reason. Denon offers a few more models and there prices seem to be a bit lower than Marantz. The Harman Kardon 2600 (last years model) for $389 shipped from Amazon is looking real good to me. But it uses their own room correction software, EZSetEQ (as does Yamaha, YAPO) so if you want to stick with Audyssey then it's Denon or Marantz. And remember, Fry's will match any internet price from an authorized dealer, even Amazon, and they carry H/K. They carry Yamaha as well. BestBuy might do the same. It doesn't hurt to ask. They carry lower end Pioneers, Denons and Yamaha's and those stores with Magnolia HiFi's carry the higher end models. You can also go into Fry's or BB and ask them what their best price is on a particular receiver. They, Fry's in particular, are hurting right now from losing sales to the internet. I picked up an open box Pioneer Elite SC-35 ($1600 msrp) from BB last month for $649. Looks and works good as new with full warranty. Given your previous problems I wouldn't blame you for avoiding the internet for a while. But look up the best prices from authorized dealers and I bet your local store will match it. Sales tax will be added of course.

 

[raverell]

Good information, thanks. I think I am going to stick with Pioneer Elite and I spent a few hours on the net looking around. I have so many websites saved in Roboform for equipment, I can't keep up with them. Then I got a serious headache and I had to walk away. I would like to sneak in somewhere and grab something with Black Friday coming for around $400. What say ye?

 

[gene c]

Look for an 1120/1121 or an Elite vsx-32/vxs-52 (last year/this year). They have slightly better amp sections than the 1021 and lower/51 and lower. I've heard Costco sell Elites at bangin' prices from time to time. Might be worth a look if you're carded (I'm not). I'm really liking my Elite vsx-23 bought on ebay (used of course) for about $280 4-5 months ago. That SC-35 is really too much receiver for me so I also bought a vsx-03 (the previous years version) for $180. It arrived this afternoon. If it holds up as well I might put the 35 up for sale and pocket the difference, or more than likely fund my obsession. Elites are also very nice looking with the shinny gloss black face, orange display and blue lights. Here's a picture of the SC-35 under a BDP-05 BluRay player and DV-58 universal dvd player. Sorry about the wires .

 

[gene c]

Here's the skinny on Pioneers. Very clear and detailed sound. Not as "musical" as Marantz or Denon but with a little tweaking of the eq etc it can come close. Very simple and easy to use on-screen setup menu. Usefull adjustments in Audio Parameters. Quicky change between the 6 MCACC presets, Midnight/Loudness, Bass-Treble, Standing Wave, DNR, Dialog Enchancement (very usefull), Sound Retreval (for compressed music), Hi-Bit, all available at the touch of a button. And each MCACC preset also remebers individual speaker volume settings as well as the eq settings so you can basically set the receiver up 6 different ways for different listening conditions. They also run very cool to the touch. Easy to use and operate. The not so good. Only one crossover setting for all speaker groups (this could be a deal breaker for some), not as powerful as most other receivers regardless of what the specs say (but enough for me), no video processing through the HDMI inputs. Whatever comes in via hdmi goes to the display. No video up-conversion or contrast, color, brightness, etc. adjustments. These are all available for all the analog video inputs. That's all I can think of for now. There is no perfect receiver but Pioneer offers a good balance of what I need.

 

[raverell]

Just for the record, its 3 receivers that had to go back (2 Onkyo 708s and a Sony STR-DN1010 which wouldn't run the calibration process), and the subwoofer, but who's counting? I am more than happy to do business with internet sites. Thats where I buy most of my stuff anyway. As long as they are an Authorized Retailer for warranty purposes. I've used OneCall.com Vanns.com jr.com Tigerdirect.com in the past. Also found good deals at 6thAve.com. That is a very nice presentation of your components. Very nice. I''ve never owned any Denon or Marantz equipment and my curiosity is stirred. So, I will look into the models that you mentionl. I know its all a matter of timing, but can you recommend a website that consistently searches for the best price on any given piece. Pricegrabber.com used to be pretty good but I haven't been on there in awhile.I really like Pioneer's MCACC presets, though.

 

[raverell]

Well, the sales are already starting and I see that you can grab a Pioneer VSX 50 for $429, the lowest I have ever seen for that model. Only question is, its from www.electrocloseout.com. Authorized dealer? Questionable. I've been at it for many hours already today and am about to take a break. Just looked at the list of Pioneer Authorized Dealers, and they are not on it.

 

[gene c]

It states on Pioneers website that Elite products are not authorized to be sold on the internet so anything Elite wouldn't have a Pioneer warranty. You could purchase a SquareTrade warranty though, at extra cost. If that didn't scare you away then Walmart.com has the Elite vsx-31 for $298 shipped to your local store. They list a three year extended warranty for $28 on the checkout page. Not a bad deal. It's last years model and is based on the regular 1020. I'm not sure what the vsx-50 is based on but I'm betting it's the 1021. In any event, neither one would be a power-house volume wise but good enough for most. I also use Pricegrabber but fine these shopping services often leave out many entries. Mostly I just browse the sites I'm confident in and try to keep up to date with what's available. I really like Denon and Marantz as well, I just find them harder to setup and operate but others don't seem to have those problems. Their remotes and manuals are also a pain. I'd avoid Sony and lately Onkyo . I've lost faith in them lately. Yamaha is probably the sleeper in the group. The one consumer level brand I haven't owned yet. H/K is also very good. They seem to have solved their QC issues of the past few years. The 2600 for $389 is a real bargain. But it's EZSetEQ isn't user adjustable so that was the killer for me. For those who "set it and forget it" It should be high on the list.

 

[atc454]

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[raverell]

Well I just wasn't happy with the Elite's not having Audyssey's Calibration so I bought a Denon 2112ci the other day. It has MultEQXT and here's something interesting. The Denon 1712 also has it, but the 1912, the more expensive model, does not. I think I've done enough research on AVRs the past few months to write a thesis on them!! On the subject of the subwoofer wiring, the guy I spoke to at OneCall, name is Lee, said the sub should work the way it is wired with the Sony 1010 so we will see when he calls me tomorrow. He offered to do a walk through with me on the cabling and connections for the other receiver I bought from them, the Sony DN1010 in the Living Room. I found OneCall very easy to deal with, talk to etc.. On another matter, I got an email from A4L a couple of days ago approving my refund on the second Onkyo 708! Outstanding. But the number of remotes in the LR is nuts and I have to get another Harmony for that system. Do you know of any issues using the same remote system, the 700, for both systems?

 

[gene c]

Well, hopefully the smoke is starting to clear and the end of your frustration is in sight. And yes, people do like their Audyssey!. Congrats on the 2112. Denon makes very good receivers. I don't care for their manuals but they re-designed their remotes last year and they look much easier to use. Strange about that Audyssey thing with the 1912. I remember buying an H/K avr-435/cd-8385-dvd-47 combo from OneCall about 6-7 years ago. Fantastic combination but the silly dvd-47 wouldn't play a couple of my 24/192 music discs so I sold the whole thing. Using the same type remote for the two systems shouldn't be a problem. In fact, it should make things easier. I have an Elite 23txh in one room and an SC-35 in another and use the same remote in both rooms. I bought a second SC-35 remote to use with the 23 off ebay. But I won't be happy until voice recognition hits the HT market! That and a fully wireless setup. AT+T recently anounced a wireless dvr so maybe someday....Anyway, I'm glad you've hung in there so far. A lot of people would have thrown in the towel by now and pulled the old vcr out of the box in the corner of the garage. You know, the one with the pile of old cloths on it? Hope things go better from here. You know, it is kind of funny. I must have bought at least a dozen (probably more) receivers off ebay/craigslist, etc. in all manner of condition, new/refurbed/open box/used/well used, with and without some of the accessories, and I've never had a single problem with any of them. Nothing. And then there's people like you ( ) who have far more trouble than they deserve. I guess life is like a box of chocolates.