Need some quick clarification on Hitachi "Stretch Modes" and Tosh "Resolution" (1 Viewer)

[Rain]

Also lose blue focus causes a halo too.

Can you elaborate on that. I have no idea what "blue focus" means. :b

 

[MichaelFusick]

Alot of MFG don't focus the blue CRT as tight as they do the others. This improves light output and gives whites the showroom charecter that sets them apart from other sets.

What set do you have for manual convergence? Sony?

Yes, convergence can cause serious ghosting, though more blue with the halo effect. The other ghosting is red and green peeking out.

 

[MichaelFusick]

I don't know about previous models, but the KP51WS500 does not allow any kind of manual convergence in the user menu. "Flash Focus" is all you get.

Yes.

Flash focus is not good unless you contantly re-train it what to do.

You can manually converge the set via the service menu, and it should make a big difference.

Instructions...
Turn the set off (standby)
Press in order on the remote- Display, 5, Volume+, then power to turn it on.

This should get you into the service menu and you should see the green headers on top to confirm this.

WARNING: ENTERING THE SET CAN VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND CAUSE SERIOUS HARM TO THE SET IF YOU CHANGE THINGS YOU DON"T KNOW ABOUT!!!!

Hit the number 2 on the keypad of the remote to cycle through the chapter headers of the service menu untill you see "PJE"

PJE is the connvergence header and should be white. When you get there, press 6 to get the grid on the black background up. Then 9 to pop up the control box. The number 3 changes color you are adjusting.

The JOYSTICK moves around and when you press the joystick in the control box turns a color you are adjusting and you use the joystick to control things.

Don't adjust green. Start with red, then do blue. Green is your guide you converge the red and blue to match.

Start in the center and work out clockwise. do one color at a time.

If you hit #1 it automatically rotates clockwise out... Neat little trick.

Mute + enter saves if you think you improved anything. If not, just turn off the set without saving and nothing will be changed.

I would recomend you learn more before you try it, perhaps even order a service manual.

Some of the Sony guys might better explain this that I did.

Steve S????

 

[Rain]

WARNING: ENTERING THE SET CAN VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND CAUSE SERIOUS HARM TO THE SET IF YOU CHANGE THINGS YOU DON"T KNOW ABOUT!!!!

According to what I've been told, accessing the service menu does NOT void the warranty.

Thank you for the convergence instructions, but quite frankly I couldn't be bothered to do this myself if it's covered under warranty. Let them do the work.

My ghosting is NOT blue, so it's probably not the blue focus. However, I may as well look into that also. Do you know how to "tweak" this?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings
Accessing the service menu does void your warranty if you cause damage to the TV in there.
Of course causing any sort of damage in or out of the menu also would void the warranty.
Where the baseball bat met the screen ...
Regards

 

[Rain]

Michael,

Can you tell us which settings can cause damage?

 

[Jack Briggs]

I strongly suggest that you do not enter the service menu. If you're keeping the Sony, live with the EE artifacting for the hundred or so hours necessary prior to calling in a professional calibrationist.

 

[Rain]

enter the service menu.

Thanks for the tip, but I've already been into the service menu several times.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Rain,
The blue has been a bit defocussed on every rptv I've had, 4 so far. The service manual for my analog Hitachi even has specific instructions on how to properly defocus the blue!

As others have stated, it increases light output because blue is the weakest color--has something to do with the phosphors used in the crts.

The only effect I've seen is that when watching talking heads (i.e. local newscasts) against a solid blue background on a weaker cable channel there's a little color fringing.

I haven't attempted a manual convergence on my set, the patterns for checking this in AVIA look pretty good on mine, and the translation from Japanese in the service manual has me feeling just a little less than confident about doing it right. My set's never drifted out of convergence, and Flash Focus has never messed it up. I may print out Michael's instructions and give a manual convergence a shot one of these weekends, just for fun.

As far as what can and can't mess up your set in the service menu, it's best not to adjust any item whose purpose you are not absolutely sure of and to always right down the original value for that item before changing it.

In my case I have the service manual which does have a list of what each item does, though some of the descriptions are Greek to anyone who isn't a tv technician by trade. I haven't changed anything other than a few items I've read about in the tweaks sections at various forums and spots, and had a lot of prior experience messing with a Sony direct-view.

If Greg Loewen or Michael TLV ever hit Fresno I would seriously consider getting my set ISF'd but so far I'm pretty happy with what I've been able to do with it. Perhaps ignorance is bliss in my case.

 

[MichaelFusick]

so far I'm pretty happy with what I've been able to do with it. Perhaps ignorance is bliss in my case.

It is.

Once you learn, it's all your do. You won't even be able to enjoy a movie without first tweaking and making sure everything is set top perfection.

You'll find yourseld tweaking freinds and relatives sets. Everyone seesm to have a sony, so you'll get lots of places to practice.

Soon your be out of control.

My advice is to remain happy and stay out... It's almost addicting. You think the convergence is good, untill you get in there and discover it can get alot better.

I thought you had already done manual convergence. I figured you for a tweaker type.

I take it you have not centered your screen, or adjusted geometry? Or focus?

One easy tweak that's really worthwile given that one of the color temps is NTSC standard is the AXIS or AXPL tweak.

Sony's push red, but changing the value of AXIS or AXLP in the service menu to 0,1,2,or3 depending on which set it is will make the color decoder accurate and not push red.

Worthwile tweak to try sometime. Nice thing about sony's is if you don't save "mute then enter" then all you have to do is turn off the power and nothing is changed. So you can perform the tweak and practice a few times before you actually do it and save the changes.

Sony's are straightforward. I like that.

 

[Rain]

I take it you have not centered your screen, or adjusted geometry? Or focus?

Screen is centered. I tried a little geometry adjustment, but it throws off the convergence to the point where the Flash Focus doesn't work. If I make any significant changes to the geometry, a manual convergence would be required immediately, so I'm going to wait on that issue.

How do you adjust focus other than via manual convergence?

 

[Scott_Sylke]

I know that the topic has kind of changed to tweaking....but I would be remiss if I didn't make one note to the original question of this post.

I recently bought a Hitachi 57SWX20b. I made the choice between that and comparable Sony and Toshiba sets. I made my choice based on the picture quality. I must admit that the strech modes (which I use quite often) are not up to par with competing brands.

If, however, you plan on buying a HDTV compatable satellite receiver then DO NOT let the stretch modes alter your decision. I got the Sony HD-200 sat receiver and it does the stretch modes and bypasses the TVs. You simply have the Hitachi in 16:9 standard all the time using the DVI input. The set-top boxes stretch modes and deinterlacer(?) make for an excellent picture even with 4:3 material.

I couldn't be happier with the decision I made!

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Michael, do you happen to know the procedure for saving manual convergence to flash-focus?? I think it may be over at the Spot but I'm having trouble over there lately getting to the tweaks section even though I am paid. I did the AXIS trick months ago. As far as I can tell the picture is centered to within 2 cm or so.

It was off to the left about 2 inches when I first got my Panny CP-72, then I found the centering adjustment in the player's user menu.

I read too many distress calls over at the spot from guys who'd accidentally totally screwed up their widezoom convergence to want to take a chance with mine, but you've gotten me curious.

Think I'll maybe take a shot at grayscale first, as I've already had practice on a Sony direct view I used to own.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Saving to flash focus ...

work on convergence ... when done ... save to mute/enter.

now press flash focus button ...

It will learn likely 90% of what you did ... touch up a bit more ... save again ... hit touch focus again ...

now save repeatedly on your way out of the convergence mode back into the green letter mode ...

shut tv off ...

regards

 

[Rick Faldo]

Michael TLV:

"Sony all allow direct access to the colour decoder while Pioneer and Toshiba do not. As a result the Toshiba currently falls to the bottom 5 of this list"

Does this alone drop the Toshiba to the bottom of the list? Next question, how important is it from a calibrators view?

Seems most posts refer to RPTV's ability for "tweeking" as their saving grace and if the Toshiba's don't allow this maybe the Toshiba's are not for us/me. More waiting I guess.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

It falls to 5th place where the colour decoder is concerned since the other four permit it, but not this one. However, Toshiba's decoder settings are the closest of the five out of the box so this issue alone is a non-issue. It's kinda like saying that the other sets are at 95%, but the Toshiba is at 91% ... hardly something to get all depressed about.

The TV is still one of the most tweakable sets out there. As a calibrator, there are always more items we'd like to have control over ...

The good calibrators will look at the colour decoder sure as they will look at the grayscale.

funny, in just a few short years, the industry has gone from being oblivious to ISF ... then to hostility toward ISF and now to working with ISF.

1998-99 and before ... full menu access on many sets ... Toshiba/Mits et al.

2000 ... Manufacturers learn about ISF calibrations and what tweakers are doing ... introduce methods to lock out menus.

2001 ... continued hostility ...

2002 ... Break through after lobbying from ISF and many industry insiders ... manufacturers start to put back in and expand the number of service parameters used by the ISF and enthusiasts alike to tweak.

Regards

 

[Rick Faldo]

Michael: Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
Wonder what 2003 will bring?...hopefully more improvements.
Rick

 

[elMalloc]

Maybe USER adjustments with ISF Manuals so people can do it by themself!
Or every set will come out with great OOTB quality!
Nah.
ELmO:star:

 

[John Beavers]

I have the Hitachi 57" TWX set. I do not understand the complaints about the stretch mode. My wife who HATES stretch modes has no problem with this set's expand setting. Yes, there is some "birds eye" effect with long distance camera shots, but for most programming it keeps the center image in proper form with the sides being a little distorted. The zoom mode works great for my favorite Sci-Fi show Stargate SG1, as they letterbox it and with Zoom 1 it almost perfectly matches the 4:3 broadcast image.
As for the AVIA results with red push and the like for an un-ISF calibrated set, why even consider that when making your decision? Almost all TVs will come out of the box badly calibrated. I have seen the TWX, fully ISF calibrated, and it is about as perfect a picture as I've seen on any display device. I've got my ISF guy coming out on 11/12 to do my set. Can't wait. The red push on this set is really RED, but I can live with it for a couple of weeks. As I know what awaits me after the ISF

 

[elMalloc]

Well it all depends if you can live with it. I could probably try to live with it for 4x3 cable (and anything else in 4x3, even though the speeding up and slowing down of objects from the sides is sometimes dizzy). I can't live with it for games though, I was playing virtua tennis at my friend's house on it..and it's practically a new game with the ball slowing and speeding up when it wants to. If I was a DVD/HD only viewer I'd prefer the hitachi over anything else, shame their stretch modes aren't as good as other companies to me.

-ELmO