My Denon DVD 2900 review [long] (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

In other words, if the main channels are all 0 dB, and *with* the 10 dB boost the sub channel is 0 dB (DD), then without that boost, the sub channel is ... -10 dB (SACD/DVD-A).

But music[cd/dvd-a sacd] doesn't require that boost,is it really that difficult to understand?

 

[Lewis Besze]

Bob have you actually played any music disks[SACD,DVD-A] on the 2900? What do you think?

 

[KeithH]

Rachael, thanks for the mini-review. Interesting results.

 

[James Elvick]

Well all,

I'll chime in hear. I do no think there is a bass problem on the SACD or DVD-A with this player. Not sure why some think/are having problems, but with my setup it works as it should. I have a Anthem AVM-20 and am not using the the analog DSP, don't need it with this player. I have tried all the different setups and was concerned about the test tones and lack of bass on the setup. But, when I play the music, DVD-A Riding with the King, PLENTY of BASS! Chris Botti SACD same thing.

James

 

[David S]

James - to me you've nailed it. Is the bass adequate while actually listening to music? Sure is on my 2900 as well. Test tones? I, for one, don't sit and listen to them very often. Put in PF DSOTM, Beck;s Sea Changes, Willie Nelson Stardust, Jorma K - Blue Country Heart, Miles Davis KOB, and on my 2900/950 set-up, the bass is there.

Kind of reminds me of the whole 950 (which I own and love)claims of "hype" then "hiss" then conspiracy of beta testers, then hiss fixed units, then DTS problem, then DTS fix, then, then, then...........! I also think that a lot of people set/listen to their bass way to hot, even for movies. Maybe this is part of problem to??

 

[Rich Malloy]

I asked:
Since you're using the onboard bass management of the Denon for SACD, for me the $60K question is (wait for it!)... does it degrade the sound quality
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis responded:
I notice no such thing nor would I expect it to be honest.

I'm not sure I followed your response, Lewis, but if the 2900 is performing bass management without degrading the sound quality of the DSD signal, then this is the first player on the market to do so (though one person reported here that Yamaha acheived this, as well). If true, then this is no small development and would certainly distinguish the 2900 from every other player on the market, including those costing thousands more like the XA777ES. I'd love to know what Denon is doing differently with their SACD bass management.

 

[gregD]

I strongly second that motion!!!... I don't even have a multichannel player, and yet the DTS 5.1 layer of this disc convincingly puts you right in the audience, and makes for rather good sound... but most importantly, the performance is over the top!... FZ's solos are otherwordly... easily one of the 3 best FZ live shows ever released.

Meanwhile, still waiting for a foolproof universal player... and I don't see evidence of one in this thread (or any other)... why the lingering BM/TA issues?... why the lingering chroma bug (in other makes, anyway)?... why NO DIGITAL INTERFACE???

Hi-res faces a wobbly future without a player.

 

[RAF]

...claims of "hype" then "hiss" then conspiracy of beta testers...

Yeh, those Outlaw Beta Testers were a conspiratorial lot, weren't they?!?



Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!




It's a good thing I have a thick skin since I'm anticipating another round of flak myself if when my 2900 arrives it merges nicely with my 950. While I tend to advise people to try things first hand before dismissing them (Lewis' position as well) I temper this a bit in this case since we are dealing with a new product (the 2900) that many people are curious about and are trying to find out about from early adopters. When I was working on the the Beta 950 I realized that others could not get one immediately to verify what I was hearing so they had to take my word on it. Later on, when the product finally shipped in numbers and with Outlaw's liberal "try it in your home" policy it was easier to find out for yourself if the unit met a particular need. While it is possible to return a 2900 to most dealers if things don't work out I feel that it probably isn't quite as seamless as with Outlaw and that most people would like to avoid this.

The vast majority of people who check in here and at similar sites are looking for information. And with such a large variety of equipment available there are bound to be differences in set-up and utility. This will always lead to speculation and differences of opinion until the dust settles. The Denon 2900 looks promising on a number of levels but it won't be everthing for everybody. Very little is. But some of the "demands" I see here and at other sites for "immediate" response from Denon representatives - even before the problem is identified - are a little over the top. People are entitled to answers, but a dialogue should be a two-way street and not a diatribe.

My 2 (5.1 analog sources) cents.

 

[David S]

"But some of the "demands" I see here and at other sites for "immediate" response from Denon representatives - even before the problem is identified - are a little over the top".

RAF - Agree, and this is assuming its actually a "problem" vs how the 2900 marries to the wide variety of products out there (eg., the hiss that was loud, kinda loud, not to loud, no hiss...) with the 950 as people staring identifying amps/gain controls, speakers (high efficent like the Klipsh(sp)), etc.

I'm listening to DSOTM right now and the bass output is (from my hearing/mind only) = to listening to DSOTM on my Sony SACD 222ES. No measurments taken, although my system is calabrated via the Rat Shack meter. I have 0 DVD Audio discs at home (but as I'm off today maybe FM Rumors is in my future:>)

RAF - off topic, what Phono preamp to you end up with? The Parasound?

 

[Rachael B]

Guyz, I will pick up the Zappa. It has all the golden greats except maybe WHIPPING FLOSS It looks me in the face and sez buy me every time I'm down at Busted Buy. The new DVD-A/DTS disc section is right beside SACD.
Keith, that's what I did while my mom was in the docteur's office and waiting for me to pick her up. I'm going to Nashville in a couple of weeks. I hope to make time to drop by the Marantz dealer and see their wares. I want a uni player so it will be convient to play my DVD-A's again and my upcoming Zappa toy. I may be willing to give up a bit of SACD performance for a uni. The 2900 seemed worthy of consideration.

I'm kind'a stranged out about why I liked M/C so much more than stereo on the 2900. Gary Bartz's sax is so detailed on Joe Chambers' URBAN GROOVES on the 555 and most especially the 777. It didn't come off at all well on either set of speakers. The Kinks' LOW BUDJET didn't come off well either. It's awfully well done for an older album IMO. I know I am a bit spoil't! My impression of M/C was better though. Next time I'm taking a couple of DVD-A's and test those waters. Best wishes!

 

[RAF]

RAF - off topic, what Phono preamp to you end up with? The Parasound?

Yep. Exactly. The Parasound PPH-100. A little over $100, if I recall. Did exactly what I wanted it to do and allows me to use my vinyl once more with the Outlaw 950. Sweet. Now all I need is to find the time.



And, of course, the space for all of these things. My DVD collection (over 2100 titles and counting) is pushing out my LD collection (~1800 titles and no more counting) which is pushing out my vinyl collection (~1000 titles) which has pushed out my 78's, 45's, and even 16.6's (!).

Speaking of "pushing out," and to show that there really is nothing that is off-topic where A/V is concerned,



The 2900 will push out one of my two current DVD players (a SONY 9000ES and a Panny RP-91). I'm thinking that I'll move the SONY upstairs into the bedroom to join its older brother, the venerable SONY 7000. That will add DTS to my "2nd" HT as well as 2 Channel SACD.

Incidentally, I'm putting together a pretty nice little secondary system upstairs, recycling some older parts. I'm installing my idle DENON 5700 and purchased an Energy Take 5.2 set w/ SW. Very nice for my medium sized bedroom.

The RP-91 staying downstairs makes sense because of the auto aspect ratio thing. Of course, this might change in the next "push" and I believe that the 5700 has 5.1 external analog inputs so I could always add DVD-A or Multichannel SACD upstairs as well. And, now that I think of it, the 5700 has a phono pre-amp stage so maybe my vinyl will end up upstairs!

I'm almost hoping my trusty old (original) SONY 27" XBR gives up the ghost (of course it won't - still going strong in its second decade of heavy use) so that I can make an excuse to get one of those 40" or so HDTV wall units. I guess I'll take a closer look once the Dish HD PVR-921 comes out and I "push" my Dish 6000 HD receiver upstairs to join the others.

It never ends, does it David?

 

[David S]

"It never ends, does it David"?

Crap!My purchases in the last 6 months:

Sony SACD 222ES
Pioneer Elite PRO630HD
Denon DVD 2900
Zenith HD520 Direct TV/HD Receiver
Direct TV installed
WineGuard7840 OTA Antenna(for local HD signals)

No, I'd say it never ends. Damn fun though:>

 

[CurtisC]

Hello all,I just set up my 2900 and it sounded great,for 25 minutes.I was listening to dvd-a and it started skipping,then said no-play.I tried another and about a third through,same thing,then another, 4th song same thing.Oh well,maybe its just my luck to get a faulty unit.PS the unit also is very loud,kinda like a microwave,maybe thats whats causing the problem,PS II, CD's do not skip,GO FIGURE.

 

[Daniel Mai]

Definately trade it, it shouldn't sound loud mechanically at all. When my unit was defective, I can hear the laser trying to read the discs 3 or 4 times and then it'd give up and display "NO PLAY". I've been keeping a closer look at the new one and it's behaving well.

 

[Dalton]

My first 2900 was defective. SACD discs would skip and pop. Even the new ones. This second one is great so far. I hope this unit holds up well because it sounds fantastic.

 

[CurtisC]

Yes I was pleasantly surprised by the dvd-a reproduction,it was quite a good improvement from my A10.The redbook was also better than I thought it may be,actually very good,better than upsampled on A10 anyhow.I am going to try the SACD momentar.

 

[Mike Sloan]

Kevin B:

The DD decoder, whether in the receiver or the player, automatically adds 10 db to the LFE signal. There's nothing you can do about it, and it's completely transparent to the operation of the player. However, that 10 dB boost is not included for SACD or DVD-A.

You are correct about the "hidden" and always misunderstood 10db boost to the LFE in regards to DD and DTS format.The LFE channel of multichannel film soundtrack requires a 10db boost on the LFE channel. The LFE is specifically encoded 10db lower than intended- and the decoder adds back in the 10db (assuming your LFE pad is in the proper position).

This standard is not specific to DTS or Dolby, rather is an element of the multichannel source stems as dictated by the SMPTE standard. All multichannel film soundtracks are prepared this way, regardless of digital carrier, and a decoder replaces the 10db.

From Dolby Labs:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...-figure-2a.gif

 

[Mike Sloan]

sorry...wrong link above

 

[Lewis Besze]

The LFE is specifically encoded 10db lower than intended- and the decoder adds back in the 10db (assuming your LFE pad is in the proper position).

No it isn't,it's encoded at the same level,then gets the boost,by the end user's decoder[home only].This is why the LFE can reach 115db calibrated at "reference" levels,nut the rest of the channels are only reach 105db,The 10db offset remains.If you read the article you have referenced to you'll see it.

 

[CurtisC]

I just wanted to come back and comment on the sacd side of this player.It works perfectly,and sounds very crisp and detailed.I listened to very familiar music and it NEVER sounded so good.The passages that are soft are almost dead quiet,then thunderous db's,very impressive for me.I have no bass issues at all on dvd-a,sacd,cd,dts or dd,set and forget.It all sounds great,my only problem was the skipping on dvd-a but I turned the unit OFF(not stanby) and hrs later on to try sacd.It played the sacd no problem,I thought hey I'll try another dvd a.I put in Fleetwood Mac,worked great,I put in the first disk I had that skipped,same spots,no skips.I still called my guy and he said bring it in for exchange.Very strange though,I see no way turning the unit off(not standby)would fix it.I still can't comment on video,I'm not as descriminating as some may be.I am pretty picky on sound,and it performs better than I expected in this area.I should say I am using it with the 3803pre/pro which may have resolved some BM issues some had.I also run klipsch rf's7 all large with ext.amps.