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Moulin Rouge! (2001) (1 Viewer)

Dalton

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I'm afraid i am with the bashers on this one. I did not like this movie at all. I bought the DVD becuase of all the rave reviews i read. I should have stuck with my first instinct and not wasted my time on it. Sold the DVD the day after i watched it. I have no gripe against those who liked, i just don't count myself among you.
:)
 

Steve Owen

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Rich wrote:
After spending the last few months defending everything from "a.i." to "Ghost World" against the many nay-sayers, I finally get a chance to unload on a film!
And I've loved those discussions Rich! Always very insightful, and I've always come away with more knowledge about the film than when I started (so I know I'm about to get flattened because you're infinitely more well spoken about these things than I). But I think you're selling this one short. Cornball? Yea, OK, I'll give you that, but the beauty is that this movie KNOWS that it's cornball. It revels in it. And the use of pop songs. Yes, that's mass-culture appeal, but lyrically I thought the choices were flawless. Song after song, verse after verse, the words fit as if they were written specifically for the movie. That's no small feat to play homage to pop culture while at the same time serve the needs of the movie.

Smells Like Teen Spirit? I wouldn't have thought that could ever work, but in context the verses used were absolutely appropriate. I felt that way throughout the movie.

I'm not going to say that I'm a "fan" of musicals, but I don't dislike them. Some I like, some I don't... like any genre. I would't take the replies in this thread and extend to the conclusion that this "is in fact a musical for people who hate musicals." I know enough people who really do LOVE musicals who also liked this one to know that that statement just doesn't hold.

I can't think of another movie in recent memory that has evoked such pasion or distain (maybe A.I. to a certain extent), but I think partly that -is- the sign of a good movie... one that clearly effected its audience in some way. Loved it or hated it... there really isn't much in between.

-Steve
 

Ronald Epstein

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You guys know how I feel about this film.
It was truly the best of 2001.
In any year there could be a film like
A Beautiful Mind as a best picture.
When was the last time we have seen a film
like Moulin Rouge?
Baz Luhrmann was robbed of an Oscar nomination.
He immersed himself in that film like no other
Director has.
It should be noted that Moulin Rouge would
not have worked if all the songs were original ones.
The reason why all of us enjoyed the film was
because we connected to it through familiar music.
I don't think I can conjur up enough words to
say how incredible a movie Moulin Rouge was.
And it's sad to see that the Academy was blind to
the creative masterpiece this film is.
 

Dan Hitchman

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Moulin Rouge: :thumbsdown:
Strictly Ballroom: :emoji_thumbsup:
All in all the latter film seemed to have everything going for it and the tight editing seemed to fit better-- it flowed with the dancing styles. I loved the characters more and it had a solid comedy/drama story line.
Moulin Rouge was like the Armageddeon of musicals!
Dan
 

Rich Malloy

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Ron (or anyone), do you believe this was a better musical than either Hedwig or Lagaan?

Not only do I feel that Moulin Rouge was not one of the better films from this year, I also think it was the worst musical I saw this year. By that I mean, specifically, the worst composition and/or arrangement of songs, the worst singing, the worst acting, the worst dancing.

(And, of course, the lamest story of the bunch, the most piss-poor editing, blah blah blah...)

All bun and no meat! :p)
 

RobertR

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It's rare that people feel so polarized about a film. I saw the film at Ron-P's house last month. Some of the people watching it walked out on it. I've never seen that happen before. I watched the whole thing, but it never really engaged me. I can see how some people would like its look, though.
 

Jack Briggs

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"It's rare that people feel so polarized about a film."
True. And I remember one film that polarized many people back in 1968. Now, of course, it's regarded as one of the signature achievements in film. It will be interesting, though, to see what the consensus is regarding Moulin Rouge in, say, ten years.
 

Rich Malloy

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Audience/critical polarization doesn't really insure longevity. IMO, films that stand the test of time tend to be boundless in their themes and bottomless in their depth. This depth can be intellectual, emotional, artistic, dramatic, but the philosophical weight of a "2001" certainly isn't required. A film like "The Wizard of Oz" is just pop-Freud with a family values message, but it nonetheless has resonated on a very personal and emotional level with audiences, young and old, throughout the decades since its release. It's spectacle is certainly extraordinary, but there's more to it than that. The flashy spectactulars that make a big splash but lack anything substantial beneath their glitzy patina do tend to be forgotten.

I guess one of the key characteristics of "pop culture" is its disposability. You can chart the rise and fall, the move from all-the-rage to embarrasingly passe with a fair amount of ease. But some pop culture creations endure and stand the test of time.

So, is Moulin Rouge more like "The Wizard of Oz" (or "2001")? Or more like the Spice Girls?
 

Michael Martin

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I hate musicals.

No, really. I truly hate them.

However, Moulin Rouge completely sucked me in and I have been riding the wave since June of last year!

It often puzzles me when people complain that the songs are not "original." So what? Why does that make the way the songs are used bad? Knowing the songs and seeing (and hearing) them reinterpreted and adapted made the movie that much more enjoyable, and made it easier for me to understand why the characters suddenly break out into song, something that normally makes me roll my eyes and wonder how long it will be until we get back to the "real" movie.

I think one of the biggest reasons I love this film is that, even on the first viewing, it was so obvious to me that the director, cast and crew gave 100% in the making of the film, that Baz Luhrman's heart and soul were behind this movie all the way. I was taken in by the film's enthusiasm and fun and that at the core of it, it was a story about how great love is and that it is worth anything.

That does not play well in these cynical times. Being something of a cynic myself, I understand. But this movie...

Part of me is convinced that people who dont't like the film need to get a heart transplant, or a soul lift, or something. Objectively, I understand that everyone is different, has different tastes and reactions, and that is as it should be.

But this movie is GREAT. Ron Epstein is right--it is the Best Movie of 2001.
 

Rich Malloy

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Part of me is convinced that people who dont't like the film need to get a heart transplant, or a soul lift, or something.
Hey now, that sounds a little bit like a personal dig (but my skin is thick enough to withstand it!) ;)
So, "Moulin Rouge" fits your definition of "soul", then? To each his own, for sure, but I've never considered kitsch to be soulful - and this barely rates as kitsch. Or is it a reflexively postmodern collage of pop culture detritis? Again, this would be... soulful?
And, FYI, soul oozes from my pores like the oily acne-juice of an adolescent. Indeed, if I was anymore soulful, Marvin Gaye himself would surely rise from the grave to reclaim his fairly allotted share. (I've already heard from Otis Redding.)
But no one has even responded to my main question - do all of you even think "Moulin Rouge" is a better musical than either "Hedwig" or "Lagaan"?
 

Michael Martin

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Rich, apologies if I came across as being judgmental and mean. I tried to qualify my remark with the sentence after the one you quoted.

We invited two couples we know over to watch it, and they said it was "alright." They were either being polite or truly felt it was OK...if so, they are among the minority who can take it or leave it.

But even if they had hated it, they would still be my friends. So please, take my statement as a hyperbolic way of stating the way the movie touched me.
 

Michael Martin

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And Rich, I can't answer your original question because I haven't seen either film. "Hedwig" holds absolutely no interest for me. Having read descriptions here of "Lagwaan" (I know I am butchering the spelling) as well as Ebert's recommendation for big Bollywood musicals and "Lagwaan" in particular, I would be very open to it.

As far as "soul" = "kitsch," no. While MR certainly does have a kitsch factor, the "soul" for me is more about the core of the story -- two people finding each other and valuing each other for what they are, not what they do for the other person.

I guess it would be helpful for us to define what we mean by "soul," yes? You first, Rich. Am genuinely interested to hear what you mean!
 

Rich Malloy

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Rich, apologies if I came across as being judgmental and mean. I tried to qualify my remark with the sentence after the one you quoted.
I was just joshin' ya - no offense taken, whatsoever! :)
And I don't think we necessarily need to define "soul" or what is "soulful", but only because I don't think that's what "Moulin Rouge" was shooting for. Forgive me for using this all-too-malleable term, but it's too "postmodern" for that.
It's certainly true that I didn't get caught up in the love story, didn't find it believable or true. I didn't even feel the tragedy of Satine's demise. For me, the characters had all the depth of cardboard cutouts, and were little more than cliche's: the consumptive heroine, the starving poet, the moustache-twirling villian. There's nothing wrong with riffing on the old cliche's and stocking them straight out of central casting, but I didn't feel that any greater depth was even attempted. For me, what this film lacked most of all was an emotional core. And it's hard to be soulful and heartfelt about ciphers such as these.
And while Lurhman plundered the history of the Hollywood/Bollywood musical, he didn't use any of his relics in an interesting way (IMO, of course). I'm thinking, for example, of his quotation of "The Sound of Music". When McGregor launches into "The Hills are alive..." to the amazement of all around, what sort of epiphany was that exactly? My response was, "yeah so?". I couldn't help but think of the way Lars von Trier used referencs to TSoM to much greater effect in "Dancer in the Dark".
In "Dancer", the opening scene is of a community theater rehearsal of THE SOUND OF MUSIC, where the heroine, Selma, is playing the part of Maria. It's a marvelous scene as Samuel, the director of this little community production - a role performed by the film's choreographer, Vincent Paterson - jockies his amateur actors about the stage as best as he's able given the limited talent at his disposal. He gamely attempts to coax a viable version of My Favorite Things from his performers, and the scene plays as both a hilariously spot-on riff on the travails of a community theater production and equally as a glimpse behind the scenes of the shooting of the film, itself. Indeed, it plays so naturally, that one wonders, at first, which it might be.
(Especially when Selma remarks to Samuel, "You're sweating", and Samuel responds, "I know. I'm excited, though. I can see it all happening". But then he pulls a stagehand aside and whispers his concern, "I think she sings funny. And her dancing isn't that great either." Which, of course, is both true and well beside the point. It also serves as an acknowledgment - or perhaps a warning - that the film is striving for a wholly different aesthetic.)
And, throughout "Dancer", the effect of these quotations is profoundly different than the original. Von Trier wasn't simply larding well-known lyrics into some never-ending medley. Rather, he inverted them, or used them to create a wholly different subtext. For example, Selma's gut-wrenching reprise of My Favorite Things, sung in a prison cell as she contemplates her looming execution, is imbued with a gravity and depth that Rodgers and Hammerstein could never have foreseen, and perhaps could not have imagined. But it is as much a tribute to their brilliance, as well as Bjork's, that it achieves such devastating effect. It wasn't merely a quotation. It was a complete inversion.
And I cannot stand the pace (or lack thereof) of "Moulin Rouge". It's as though Lurhmann feared that if he let things slow down for a second, that the audience would realize that there's simply no there there. So, everything is shoveled out at breakneck speed to the point where it resembles the product of a thrash-metal band stuck in 4/4 time at 200 BPM with a single (loud) dynamic. No peaks, no valleys, no dynamism whatsoever, just a constant stream of white noise. It's as boring as a static shot and as wearying to the eye as ticker-tape. It simply does not breathe and thus does not seem alive. It's wallpaper in motion.
If it weren't for "Elephant Love Medley" and "Come What May" - and Ewan McGregor's surprisingly appealing voice on both - this movie would be nothing but torture of the most excruciatingly bland kind. But even the brief moments that flicker to life in those two duets can't save this big lumbering fiasco, all thumbs and left feet, from failing even as spectacle alone.
In my opinion, of course! ;)
 

Dome Vongvises

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I've said this once, and I'll say it again.
The entire time I was watching Moulin Rouge, I kept thinking back to the "Camelot" sequence in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Moulin Rouge!
Moulin Rouge!
Moulin Rouge!
It's just a model.
Shhhhhh.....

Enter people singing and dancing
On second thought, let's not go to Moulin Rouge. Tis a silly place really.
I kept thinking that sequence over in my mind time after time while watching this film. Moulin Rouge! was alright on first impression, but the more and more I thought of it, it just got sillier and sillier to me. The only two things I liked about Moulin Rouge! were Ewan McGregor's singing (especially his rendition of "Your Song") and seeing Nicole Kidman in lingerie.
Otherwise, a big :thumbsdown: from me. There are a lot of better musicals out there.
 

Terrell

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This movie was fantastic. I just finished watch it on PPV just before this post. It starts out a little bizarre, but then most live action musicals are to some extent. Then the film really gets into the love story, and it is perfectly intertwined into the film. I really love this film. I hate the tragic ended, but it was a fantastic ending. I'm just a sucker for a happy ending. Always have been, always will be.

It's moved up my list of best films of the year, right behind A Beautiful Mind. My five best are:

1. A Beautiful Mind

2. Moulin Rouge

3. Black Hawk down

4. Memento

5. In the Bedroom

Ryan makes a good point. If you give up on this film in the first 30 minutes because you find it too silly and ridiculous, then you've missed an incredible last hour and a half.
 

Mark Leiter

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I was completely entranced by this movie. I too think that it was a crime that MR didn't win for its direction. It has been a very long time since something as original as this has played on the big screen.

Its always been my opion that truley original works or art take time for people to fully absorb. Which is why one gets so many "loves it" or "hates it" responses. Like it was stated earlier, its going to be interesting to see how this film is viewed 10 years from now.

Easily my fav. movie i seen last year.
 

Ryan L B

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when the nirvana cover came on i got the lets see how the next few min are but it was really original idea. now how was romeo and julliet. is claire daines who played julliet i think good looking
 

Dome Vongvises

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Moulin Rouge! said:
Think William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet set in Miami, with ALL of the original dialogue, then you'll get a sense of how the movie is. Pretty good movie, and Clair Daines is certainly beautiful.
 

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